NHS Pension

Lowtrawler

My wife and I will be 58 shortly and we plan to continue working until 62. My wife works for the NHS in Scotland and has built up the following pensions:

·       NHS England: Deferred Pension, payable at 60 of £5,500 with Lump Sum of £16,500

·       NHS Scotland, 1995 Scheme: Payable at 60 (but I believe can’t be taken if she continues to pay into the 2015 scheme?) £5,500 with lump sum of £16,500

·       NHS Scotland, 2015 scheme: Payable at 67, £2,100

·       NHS Scotland, Additional Pension: Payable at 67, £1,000

I estimate that if she remains in the 2015 scheme and continues to pay towards the additional pension, at 62 she will have £3,600 in the 2015 scheme and £1,900 of Additional Pension (all at today’s prices before uplifting for inflation / pay increases)

2 questions:

1.       At 60, I believe she will be able to claim the NHS England deferred pension, even if she remains a member of the NHS Scotland scheme?

2.       Is there any way she would also be able to claim the NHS Scotland 1995 scheme pension at age 60 whilst continuing to pay into the 2015 scheme and additional pension? I know the answer to this question in the past has always been no, is this changed or likely to change?

Lowtrawler

If it helps, my main question is really number 1: Can my wife claim the NHS England Deferred Pension while continuing to pay into the NHS Scotland 2015 Pension Scheme?

Flugelhorn

I suspect the lack of replies indicates no-one is sure - the only thing I can find in relation to your later question is from the NHS Scotland website:
"All new employees of NHS Scotland are automatically enrolled in the NHS (Scotland) Pension Scheme 2015 as long as they’re aged between 16 and 75 and aren’t already receiving a pension from the 1995 section of the NHS * pension scheme."

the lack of the word (Scotland) where I have put the asterisk might imply  that means any 1995 NHS pension scheme 

https://pensions.gov.scot/nhs/your-membership/joining-scheme

saucer

I think the England vs Scotland part would need to be checked out with the schemes, but I would be surprised if there was any difference compared to someone retiring from 1995 scheme and remaining in 2015 as outlined in this guidance https://nhsbsa-live.powerappsportals.com/knowledgebase/article/KA-04151/en-us

greatkingrat

As the schemes have different administrators, would NHS England even know whether you were still paying into a Scottish pension or not?

Lowtrawler

saucer said:

I think the England vs Scotland part would need to be checked out with the schemes, but I would be surprised if there was any difference compared to someone retiring from 1995 scheme and remaining in 2015 as outlined in this guidance https://nhsbsa-live.powerappsportals.com/knowledgebase/article/KA-04151/en-us

Thanks, It's the first time I've seen any mention that deferred members of the 1995 scheme can take their 1995 benefits while continuing to pay into the 2015 scheme uninterrupted. Is this an indication the 2nd part of my question may be getting a more positive answer i.e. my wife will be able to claim her NHS Scotland 1995 benefits and be able to continue paying into the 2015 scheme without restriction?

Lowtrawler

I have messaged the SPPA (NHS Scotland) with my 2 questions but it usually takes weeks for a response.

Flugelhorn

Lowtrawler said:

saucer said:

I think the England vs Scotland part would need to be checked out with the schemes, but I would be surprised if there was any difference compared to someone retiring from 1995 scheme and remaining in 2015 as outlined in this guidance https://nhsbsa-live.powerappsportals.com/knowledgebase/article/KA-04151/en-us

Thanks, It's the first time I've seen any mention that deferred members of the 1995 scheme can take their 1995 benefits while continuing to pay into the 2015 scheme uninterrupted. Is this an indication the 2nd part of my question may be getting a more positive answer i.e. my wife will be able to claim her NHS Scotland 1995 benefits and be able to continue paying into the 2015 scheme without restriction?

It does look like that - the bit I found was where people were wanting to join the scheme while already taking the 95 benefits, looks like it might be different if you are already in the 2015 when you take the 95

I took my 95 benefits and carried on working, employers tried to autoenrol me in 2015 ... fortunately I got someone sane in HR / payroll who realised that they couldn't actually do that. I was over LTA so definitely didn't want any more in the schemes, particularly one I couldn't access for years.

Lowtrawler

Flugelhorn said:

Lowtrawler said:

saucer said:

I think the England vs Scotland part would need to be checked out with the schemes, but I would be surprised if there was any difference compared to someone retiring from 1995 scheme and remaining in 2015 as outlined in this guidance https://nhsbsa-live.powerappsportals.com/knowledgebase/article/KA-04151/en-us

Thanks, It's the first time I've seen any mention that deferred members of the 1995 scheme can take their 1995 benefits while continuing to pay into the 2015 scheme uninterrupted. Is this an indication the 2nd part of my question may be getting a more positive answer i.e. my wife will be able to claim her NHS Scotland 1995 benefits and be able to continue paying into the 2015 scheme without restriction?

It does look like that - the bit I found was where people were wanting to join the scheme while already taking the 95 benefits, looks like it might be different if you are already in the 2015 when you take the 95

I took my 95 benefits and carried on working, employers tried to autoenrol me in 2015 ... fortunately I got someone sane in HR / payroll who realised that they couldn't actually do that. I was over LTA so definitely didn't want any more in the schemes, particularly one I couldn't access for years.

I think it may not be quite as straightforward. Some of the material I have read indicates you can take your 1995 scheme deferred pension without impacting your continued ability to keep paying into the 2015 scheme so long as the 1995 benefits are not salary linked to your 2015 benefits. As clear as mud. 

Flugelhorn

eck definitely clear as mud, I was definitely told I couldn't join the scheme again while I was taking pension but who knows

Must say it sounds like an unusual situation to have a salary link to the 2015, the 2015 is CARE and hence not salary based (I don't think as I never joined that section) . Have you worked out what the salary link actually means?

spaniel101

Lowtrawler said:

My wife and I will be 58 shortly and we plan to continue working until 62. My wife works for the NHS in Scotland and has built up the following pensions:

·       NHS England: Deferred Pension, payable at 60 of £5,500 with Lump Sum of £16,500

·       NHS Scotland, 1995 Scheme: Payable at 60 (but I believe can’t be taken if she continues to pay into the 2015 scheme?) £5,500 with lump sum of £16,500

·       NHS Scotland, 2015 scheme: Payable at 67, £2,100

·       NHS Scotland, Additional Pension: Payable at 67, £1,000

I estimate that if she remains in the 2015 scheme and continues to pay towards the additional pension, at 62 she will have £3,600 in the 2015 scheme and £1,900 of Additional Pension (all at today’s prices before uplifting for inflation / pay increases)

2 questions:

1.       At 60, I believe she will be able to claim the NHS England deferred pension, even if she remains a member of the NHS Scotland scheme?

2.       Is there any way she would also be able to claim the NHS Scotland 1995 scheme pension at age 60 whilst continuing to pay into the 2015 scheme and additional pension? I know the answer to this question in the past has always been no, is this changed or likely to change?

Im going to ask the obvious just for clarity, are the 2 above definately 2 seperate entities, or one and the same (transferred in to Scotland) ?


Final salary link is if you have a break in service/membership of 5 years or more (then becomes Deferred/unlinked).   In these circumstances, you can join/continue paying into 2015 scheme whilst taking your (Deferred) 1995 scheme.   Indeed, if the break was 5 years or less (linked), you cannot join/continue to pay into 2015 scheme.   (2008 scheme you can join/continue 2015 scheme, regardless).   

https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/2019-11/Final Salary Linking Turning Point Presentation 2018.pdf