LBC from Gladstones/PS24

unapologicallyme

Hi everyone,

I have read a few threads before making this post but can’t find any that are fully relatable.

I parked in the Salford Uni car park in 2018 and received a PCN - I parked there regularly and always paid apart from this one occasion by the looks of it. I knew nothing about it until I started receiving letters through the post. I’ve always been under the assumption that debt collector letters can be ignored so that’s what I did.

In May 2022 I received a LBC and straight away I submitted at SAR to PS24 and sent back a request for paper forms from Gladstones which I have now received.

The SAR shows photos of my car with a PCN attached to the window, NTK and various other letters. They have not shown me any proof of the initial notice to driver (the contents of what was fixed to the windscreen).

Do I have any reasonable grounds to deny the debt or am I better off just paying up?

unapologicallyme

unapologicallyme said:

Hi everyone,

I have read a few threads before making this post but can’t find any that are fully relatable.

I parked in the Salford Uni car park in 2018 and received a PCN - I parked there regularly and always paid apart from this one occasion by the looks of it. I knew nothing about it until I started receiving letters through the post. I’ve always been under the assumption that debt collector letters can be ignored so that’s what I did.

In May 2022 I received a LBC and straight away I submitted at SAR to PS24 and sent back a request for paper forms from Gladstones which I have now received.

The SAR shows photos of my car with a PCN attached to the window, NTK and various other letters. They have not shown me any proof of the initial notice to driver (the contents of what was fixed to the windscreen).

Do I have any reasonable grounds to deny the debt or am I better off just paying up?

An update - looking at the SAR the first Notice to Keeper wasn’t issued until a month after the apparent contravention. 

Coupon-mad

They are correct to send a NTK after a month, as it says there was a windscreen PCN first. So that timeline is right.

Don't assume you forgot to pay.  You always did, as a regular visitor, so why would this be any different? Quite possibly the machine wasn't working, or maybe you paid but made a minor keying error in your VRM at the machine or paid for the wrong car (if you had access to two). Or maybe you paid but the PDT ticket fell off the dashboard that day.

You must defend. It is not certain what happened and you certainly do not pay Gladstones any money, let alone an extortionate £170.

Court is not a risk. Bring it on.

Can you get pics of the signage? Is there one in the SAR (not that a sign contains your personal data of course).  

It would be good to see the sign.

Respond and deny the debt but no filling in the financial forms. Email Gladstones via their portal.

Also ask Gladstones why the client has returned a SAR including a notice to keeper that mentions a purported windscreen PCN but has not supplied that windscreen PCN nor any evidence of not paying.

As you always paid and were a regular visitor, tell them that, and that you deny any debt and require evidence that the machines were working that day (you expect to see a redacted machine log from the material time from that car parking area) and the client must check for a 'near miss' VRM match because if anything, it is likely to have merely been a simple keying error that the IPC recently tweeted should see operators treat consumers 'fairly' when using electronic systems of payment.  The new statutory Code of Practice (incoming from the Government but which the IPC Trade Body says should be followed already, as far as possible) states categorically that all keying errors should see a PCN cancelled, because the burden lies with the trader to use modern systems that identify vehicles in the car park and operators must not put the burden unfairly on motorists.

By the way, take your time, hop off this little thread and go read at least twenty other Gladstones LBC threads by searching the forum. How to respond robustly to Gladstones has been discussed to death since April. Go read some exact same threads...it is not as simple as it says in the NEWBIES thread as we have added more stuff recently to advice on individual Gs LBC threads.

Castle

Sine the NTK includes a £18 admin charge, it cannot be in agreement with the original NTD. 

unapologicallyme

Coupon-mad said:

They are correct to send a NTK after a month, as it says there was a windscreen PCN first. So that timeline is right.

Don't assume you forgot to pay.  You always did, as a regular visitor, so why would this be any different? Quite possibly the machine wasn't working, or maybe you paid but made a minor keying error in your VRM at the machine or paid for the wrong car (if you had access to two). Or maybe you paid but the PDT ticket fell off the dashboard that day.

You must defend. It is not certain what happened and you certainly do not pay Gladstones any money, let alone an extortionate £170.

Court is not a risk. Bring it on.

Can you get pics of the signage? Is there one in the SAR (not that a sign contains your personal data of course).  

It would be good to see the sign.

Respond and deny the debt but no filling in the financial forms. Email Gladstones via their portal.

Also ask Gladstones why the client has returned a SAR including a notice to keeper that mentions a purported windscreen PCN but has not supplied that windscreen PCN nor any evidence of not paying.

As you always paid and were a regular visitor, tell them that, and that you deny any debt and require evidence that the machines were working that day (you expect to see a redacted machine log from the material time from that car parking area) and the client must check for a 'near miss' VRM match because if anything, it is likely to have merely been a simple keying error that the IPC recently tweeted should see operators treat consumers 'fairly' when using electronic systems of payment.  The new statutory Code of Practice (incoming from the Government but which the IPC Trade Body says should be followed already, as far as possible) states categorically that all keying errors should see a PCN cancelled, because the burden lies with the trader to use modern systems that identify vehicles in the car park and operators must not put the burden unfairly on motorists.

By the way, take your time, hop off this little thread and go read at least twenty other Gladstones LBC threads by searching the forum. How to respond robustly to Gladstones has been discussed to death since April. Go read some exact same threads...it is not as simple as it says in the NEWBIES thread as we have added more stuff recently to advice on individual Gs LBC threads.

Thank you so much for your reply - definitely reassuring!

Attached is the sign, photo taken this morning - various signs are dotted around the edges of the car park. The car park is just a large spare land with no marked bays.

The sign says penalty is £30 if paid within 2 weeks (but driver didn’t receive NTD and they didn’t upload this to the SAR, only a photo of the sticker on the car) rising to £60 after 14 days but NTK is saying £78 then £135 but now they’re trying to get £170… are they allowed to do this?

With the ticket machine, there isn’t one. Everything is done via the PayByPhone app unfortunately, and they have attached a screenshot of my payment history on the SAR, although you can see that I do regularly pay, also attached (I didn’t park there every day hence why there’s gaps).

I’ll read the recent threads for sure - thanks for the heads up! 

Coupon-mad

"The sign says penalty is £30 if paid within 2 weeks (but driver didn’t receive NTD and they didn’t upload this to the SAR, only a photo of the sticker on the car) rising to £60 after 14 days but NTK is saying £78 then £135 but now they’re trying to get £170… are they allowed to do this?'

No.

Report them to the BPA for two breaches of the Code of Practice:

(a) alleged 'ghost ticketing' with an empty plastic envelope for the photo opportunity.  This is likely because no PCN was seen and when you obtained a SAR, no windscreen PCN was included either. Likely done in order to extort more money and never give a driver a true opportunity to pay at the discount.

(b) the only Notice was the NTK which then demanded £78 then £135, whereas the sign says the parking charge is £60 discounted to £30. This breaches the BPA Code because the NTK parking charge (before the fake 'DRA fee' is slapped on top) cannot exceed £100 without prior BPA authorisation.

unapologicallyme

Coupon-mad said:

"The sign says penalty is £30 if paid within 2 weeks (but driver didn’t receive NTD and they didn’t upload this to the SAR, only a photo of the sticker on the car) rising to £60 after 14 days but NTK is saying £78 then £135 but now they’re trying to get £170… are they allowed to do this?'

No.

Report them to the BPA for two breaches of the Code of Practice:

(a) alleged 'ghost ticketing' with an empty plastic envelope for the photo opportunity.  This is likely because no PCN was seen and when you obtained a SAR, no windscreen PCN was included either. Likely done in order to extort more money and never give a driver a true opportunity to pay at the discount.

(b) the only Notice was the NTK which then demanded £78 then £135, whereas the sign says the parking charge is £60 discounted to £30. This breaches the BPA Code because the NTK parking charge (before the fake 'DRA fee' is slapped on top) cannot exceed £100 without prior BPA authorisation.

Great I’ll get on to that right away - thanks so much for the advice honestly i really appreciate it!

Do the BPA respond to complaints? I’m conscious that I have 2 weeks left to respond to the LBC from Gladstones (funnily enough the issue date on the paperwork is the 27th June but somehow it took 11 days to get to my address….)

I read quite a chunk of the threads but haven’t managed to locate the ones with the response advice so will keep reading tonight.

thanks again!

Umkomaas

The sign says penalty is £30

I can't see that word, can you direct me to it?  It has a very specific meaning in the context of private parking. If it really isn't there, please only use the exact wording of the signage/correspondence you receive, or you can set everyone off on a bit of a wild goose chase. 

Coupon-mad

Yes the BPA investigate and reply. You don't only have 2 weeks.

unapologicallyme

Umkomaas said:

The sign says penalty is £30

I can't see that word, can you direct me to it?  It has a very specific meaning in the context of private parking. If it really isn't there, please only use the exact wording of the signage/correspondence you receive, or you can set everyone off on a bit of a wild goose chase. 

Sorry I did upload a photo of the sign - it does say parking charge and that’s what I meant - very new to all of this! Sorry for the confusion!

unapologicallyme

Coupon-mad said:

Yes the BPA investigate and reply. You don't only have 2 weeks.

Amazing thanks! 

My complaint to BPA was sent off this afternoon, thanks for advising as I would have never have thought of that. I didn’t even know they existed!!

How do you suggest I deal with Gladstones? Should I wait until closer to their deadline to contact to give BPA time to respond? 

I’ve read other Gladstones threads where people have been advised to email them to tell them they’re seeking legal or debt advice, would I go down this route or would I mention the fact that PS24 failed to provide evidence of the NTK on the SAR?

Thanks again!