Water tank replacement - my options?

snic104

I recently bought a 1-bed, first floor flat (leasehold) which was built in the mid-80s. I'm looking at possible options to replace the water tank, as I believe it's the original one from when the flat was built (it certainly looks very old!) and I'm hoping there are some more economical and eco-friendly options to replace it with.
I've tried researching what's out there, but I must admit I don't really understand what would be suitable.

The flat only has electricity (no gas  supply or oil) and I'm currently on an E7 tariff with EDF

The water tank currently heats water for the kitchen sink, bath water and bathroom sink (I also have a separate electric shower above the bath) - well, it would heat the water if it was working! At the moment I'm boiling water in the kettle to wash up, and having showers rather than baths! 

If I'm replacing the water tank with something similar, I'd like to relocate it to the loft if that's possible (directly above where it is now, so that I can use its current space to extend the kitchen ) Advice on putting it in the loft would also be very welcome.

Budget-wise, I'm not sure. Ideally I'd like to keep it to a minimum as there are other jobs I need to do around the flat too.

Bendy_House

Photos of ALL the tanks involved, please, hot and cold.

macman

Basics: are you referring to a hot water tank fitted with an immersion heater?

Section62

snic104 said:

I recently bought a 1-bed, first floor flat (leasehold) which was built in the mid-80s. I'm looking at possible options to replace the water tank, as I believe it's the original one from when the flat was built (it certainly looks very old!) and I'm hoping there are some more economical and eco-friendly options to replace it with.
I've tried researching what's out there, but I must admit I don't really understand what would be suitable.

The flat only has electricity (no gas  supply or oil) and I'm currently on an E7 tariff with EDF

The water tank currently heats water for the kitchen sink, bath water and bathroom sink (I also have a separate electric shower above the bath) - well, it would heat the water if it was working! At the moment I'm boiling water in the kettle to wash up, and having showers rather than baths! 

If I'm replacing the water tank with something similar, I'd like to relocate it to the loft if that's possible (directly above where it is now, so that I can use its current space to extend the kitchen ) Advice on putting it in the loft would also be very welcome.

Budget-wise, I'm not sure. Ideally I'd like to keep it to a minimum as there are other jobs I need to do around the flat too.

The first question is whether the loft is 'yours' to do anything with.

Bear in mind if you move the hot water cylinder to the (unheated) loft it will lose more heat than if you keep/replace it where it currently is.

If the hot water cylinder heats some water, but not all hot enough, it suggests either the thermostat is set too low or is faulty, or it the immersion heater isn't running for long enough, or you have a dual element setup and only the 'boost' element is working.  Unless the cylinder is leaking, it may only need a tweak of the settings, or at worst a new immersion element.

You can't get much more 'eco' than a well insulated hot water cylinder using off-peak renewable electricity to directly heat the water.

snic104

Section62 said:

snic104 said:

I recently bought a 1-bed, first floor flat (leasehold) which was built in the mid-80s. I'm looking at possible options to replace the water tank, as I believe it's the original one from when the flat was built (it certainly looks very old!) and I'm hoping there are some more economical and eco-friendly options to replace it with.
I've tried researching what's out there, but I must admit I don't really understand what would be suitable.

The flat only has electricity (no gas  supply or oil) and I'm currently on an E7 tariff with EDF

The water tank currently heats water for the kitchen sink, bath water and bathroom sink (I also have a separate electric shower above the bath) - well, it would heat the water if it was working! At the moment I'm boiling water in the kettle to wash up, and having showers rather than baths! 

If I'm replacing the water tank with something similar, I'd like to relocate it to the loft if that's possible (directly above where it is now, so that I can use its current space to extend the kitchen ) Advice on putting it in the loft would also be very welcome.

Budget-wise, I'm not sure. Ideally I'd like to keep it to a minimum as there are other jobs I need to do around the flat too.

The first question is whether the loft is 'yours' to do anything with.

Bear in mind if you move the hot water cylinder to the (unheated) loft it will lose more heat than if you keep/replace it where it currently is.

If the hot water cylinder heats some water, but not all hot enough, it suggests either the thermostat is set too low or is faulty, or it the immersion heater isn't running for long enough, or you have a dual element setup and only the 'boost' element is working.  Unless the cylinder is leaking, it may only need a tweak of the settings, or at worst a new immersion element.

You can't get much more 'eco' than a well insulated hot water cylinder using off-peak renewable electricity to directly heat the water.

Thanks for your reply. 

Yes, I do own the loft space.

I should  probably explain why the tank is not currently in use - it's because it has been turned off so tightly at the water inlet that no one I've asked has been able to turn it back on! 🙈 The flat was empty for 18 months before I moved in, so the tank hasn't been used for almost two years now. 

Interestingly, I just noticed today when I took photos of it, it looks like it has 12/96 written on the tank, I really couldn't make it out before and assumed it was maybe a stock code or something - presumably it's either the date when it was fitted (and therefore  not the original tank as I thought) or possibly it has been checked or serviced on that date. 

Thank you for your last comment too - good to know I might not need to replace it at all. 

snic104

Bendy_House said:

Photos of ALL the tanks involved, please, hot and cold.

Just the one tank (main and booster) with the booster switch on the kitchen wall (which is located about 3m from the tank) 

Thank you 😀

markin

wd40 on it over night.

Jonboy_1984

Have you considered the water pressures required?

Is it fed off the cold tank and if so where is the cold tank in relationship to it? If you haven’t used it and the cold is directly above it you may be shocked at how poor the hot water pressure is when you get it working. We are at 10-15 minutes to run a bath in our flat with the cold water tank immediately above the hot (ground floor flat in our case). 

If the cold water tank is already in the loft then you may not be able to relocate a convention hot water cylinder there as it needs to be physically lower than the cold tank.

If you are replacing then consider getting it updated to a direct unvented cylinder fed directly off the incoming water main, that removes the need for a cold water tank at all.

(Do be aware that fitted direct unvented cylinders is a licensed job and not DIY as it involves hot water at pressure)

Section62

Jonboy_1984 said:

Is it fed off the cold tank and if so where is the cold tank in relationship to it?

Sitting on the top of it.

It's a combination cylinder, the cold water storage is at the top of the unit.

Quite common with flats and other buildings where there is no space/access for a cold water storage tank in the loft.

OP, the only thing I'd be concerned about is the dark mark below the bottom immersion heater.  This could be a sign of a leak, or could be the fitter was too liberal with their "Boss White".

Is the stuck valve the white one at the top left of the picture? If so, don't put WD40 on that one - it won't do anything beneficial, and may damage the plastic.  If not, where is it?

plumb1_2

The white valve might not isolate it? As its also feeding something else 
take the lid off the tank and rattle the ballvalve it could be stuck closed after not being used for 2years 
get a plumber in to look at it if your not diy minded, he could also give you a quote to move the tank in the loft

Bendy_House

Good photos, Snic.

"Sitting on top of it.." - that made me laugh

As Plumb points out, that white valve 'could' be supplying the cold storage tank on top 'if' the cold mains is coming down from above. It 'isnt' supplying the CWS tank if the mains is coming up from below. So, first check, as he says, is to lift the lid and have a peep.

Can you do this? If you could take a photo of what's inside that top tank, that would help (you may need to Google what sort of lid it has, but I presume just a lift-off type?)

As also pointed out, if that is the CWS, then expect the water flow rate from taps to be pants, and a tank-fed shower to be out of the question without a pump.

Since you don't have gas, then some sort of STORED hot water is still probably your cheapest option, as you can charge it up on cheap rate leccy. The only alternatives are 'instant' heating systems, but these will be very low supply, and also full leccy cost (if used non-peak.

The usual advice you'd be given is to keep what you have as soon as it's made working again, which will likely be cheap and easy. However, you really want rid of it to make room to expand your kitchen?

Q - Do you really want to keep having baths?

 If 'yes', then the hot tank replacement will have to remain that size (but not necessarily with the top, cold, tank). If 'no - showers only are fine', then I think you could reduce that hot tank in half in size, and that should provide all the cleaning, dishwashing, and even showering hot water you'll need each day. A smaller tank to heat up, less weight to cater for in the loft, less heat loss as it's a smaller volume. (That's my theory at least - very happy to be corrected).

For showers you'd then have the choice of keeping an instant electric type - which are pretty awful, so go for the best you can - or swapping to a conventional thermostatic mixer fed from the new tank in the loft (which would give a better shower, and also be cheaper to run as it's heated by cheap leccy.) You'd need to ensure your new hot tank was large enough to provide all the hot water you'd need in one day.

Next step, I'd suggest, is to get some plumbers in to quote for shifting/replacing the tanks. They'll need good and safe access to the loft, and an idea of what YOU want from your new system.

May I ask - how many folk in your flat? And how long do you intend to stay there?