Estimated unit rates Oct 2022

Ultrasonic

pochase said:

Targeted help. There is currently nothing targeted in the help promised for this autumn. If you belong to a certain group (have a electricity account, are in means tested benefits, are disabled, get winter fuel allowance) you get money. There will be people who will get more than there additional cost for energy is, and there currently are people who will get nothing at all, for example park home owners who don't qualify for any of the other grants.

Not sure you quite meant what you wrote there? Certain lower income and vulnerable groups getting more money is targeted help.

pochase

Depends on how you define targeted.

For me it is not really targeted if a single in a bedsit with energy cost of £50 per month gets the same £650 as a family of 8 in a four bedroom house.

Unfortunately the cost and time of better targeting makes it unrealistic to do better.

Ultrasonic

pochase said:

Depends on how you define targeted.

For me it is not really targeted if a single in a bedsit with energy cost of £50 per month gets the same £650 as a family of 8 in a four bedroom house.

Unfortunately the cost and time of better targeting makes it unrealistic to do better.

It's considerably more targeted than giving every electricity account holder £400 though. Before the announcement I think it was Citizens Advice I remember making a big push that the best way to target help would be to target extra help to those on benefits, which is what the (then) government chose to do. Might there be ways to target help better? Sure. But it's misleading to suggest the help isn't targeted at all.

Mstty

Ultrasonic said:

zzzt said:

There are going to have blackouts and energy rationing.

Surely if anything the price increases being discussed make this less likely, with people reducing energy consumption as a result?

If needed I'd much rather see a way to try to ration energy use rather than actual blackouts. It takes very little energy to literally just keep the lights on.

Agreed I suspect energy usage will be down 10-20% this winter due to energy saving and just basically not being able to afford it for people on prepayment that just can't pay later.

Sea_Shell

Mstty said:

Ultrasonic said:

zzzt said:

There are going to have blackouts and energy rationing.

Surely if anything the price increases being discussed make this less likely, with people reducing energy consumption as a result?

If needed I'd much rather see a way to try to ration energy use rather than actual blackouts. It takes very little energy to literally just keep the lights on.

Agreed I suspect energy usage will be down 10-20% this winter due to energy saving and just basically not being able to afford it for people on prepayment that just can't pay later.

Somewhere (here), it was discussed how much milder last winter was, with reductions in usage being naturally down by 10-20%

So a harsher coming winter will make it even harder to reduce further from current annual usage...you could end up back where you were, to just stand still.

Mstty

Sea_Shell said:

Mstty said:

Ultrasonic said:

zzzt said:

There are going to have blackouts and energy rationing.

Surely if anything the price increases being discussed make this less likely, with people reducing energy consumption as a result?

If needed I'd much rather see a way to try to ration energy use rather than actual blackouts. It takes very little energy to literally just keep the lights on.

Agreed I suspect energy usage will be down 10-20% this winter due to energy saving and just basically not being able to afford it for people on prepayment that just can't pay later.

Somewhere (here), it was discussed how much milder last winter was, with reductions in usage being naturally down by 10-20%

So a harsher coming winter will make it even harder to reduce further from current annual usage...you could end up back where you were, to just stand still.

No change potentially if harsh or mild winter people will have a budget and that's it.  Especially those on pre pay on benefits and credit. they won't have been able to bag any of the fixes we have been talking about for months and their usage will be down regardless of the type of winter we have I suspect.

Spoonie_Turtle

pochase said:

For me it is not really targeted if a single in a bedsit with energy cost of £50 per month gets the same £650 as a family of 8 in a four bedroom house.

That's because the £650 is for the rising cost of living all round, not specifically energy.  The new WHD targets in the way you're thinking.

Ultrasonic

Sea_Shell said:

Mstty said:

Ultrasonic said:

zzzt said:

There are going to have blackouts and energy rationing.

Surely if anything the price increases being discussed make this less likely, with people reducing energy consumption as a result?

If needed I'd much rather see a way to try to ration energy use rather than actual blackouts. It takes very little energy to literally just keep the lights on.

Agreed I suspect energy usage will be down 10-20% this winter due to energy saving and just basically not being able to afford it for people on prepayment that just can't pay later.

Somewhere (here), it was discussed how much milder last winter was, with reductions in usage being naturally down by 10-20%

So a harsher coming winter will make it even harder to reduce further from current annual usage...you could end up back where you were, to just stand still.

Personally I think there's significant scope for many households to cut back on energy by smarter use of their heating, and jumpers (and more modest savings elsewhere). That's not to say there won't be an issue for many, but I think the higher prices may start to impact the behaviour of more who have previously been so comfortably off that they've never bothered to think too much about it. This would also be better from an environmental perspective.

savers_united

The way I look at the help thats been announced is how much energy does that buy. I realise every household and building is different but the support given to date if used purely on energy gives those on the lowest income a guaranteed amount of paid for energy. 

Everyone has had the £400 and majority have had the £150 CT rebate.

However some households are getting over £1k in support. 

Because we have come to point where people really need to be looking at their energy use, no matter where they are on the income scale, those who simply cannot afford to use the same amounts of energy need to be looking at using less. 

Someone on benefits who has historically paid circa £80 a month and now faces an October rise to £240, that's £160 per month more (£1920 per annum more), almost 2/3 of that increase would be covered by the Gov't support. With a bit of effort closing that gap is possible. 

fergie_

As said above, the big help is targeted at those on benefits or on lower council bands. That doesn't help for example pensioners in higher band homes or those that are just above the benefit thresholds.

Apart from investing in renewable power generation (especially tidal), the lack of insulation in many English homes (a third with no loft insulation?) needs addressed plus its crazy that new homes down south do not require solar panels etc. It should be a condition of being granted planning permission.

For everyone else, something close to the Italian model where solar etc is offered with huge subsidies would be an obvious solution. Much better to generate clean 'free' power than subsidise people to keep using what they currently do from the national grid.

The reality though is people can only cut so much before it really affects their (mental) health.