Morrisons staff

Andy_L

lincroft1710 said:

Andy_L said:

lincroft1710 said:

pjcox2005 said:

lincroft1710 said:

Andy_L said:

lincroft1710 said:

You must have been lucky or Morrisons have been re-educating their staff. A few years ago one of their staff clearly didn't know that if a best before date was (e.g.) 7 July 2022, then it was no longer at its best on 7 July 2022.

"Form of indication of “use by” date

21.—(1) Where a “use by” date is required in respect of a food it shall be indicated by the words “use by” followed by—

(a)the date up to and including which the food, if properly stored, is recommended for use, and

(b)any storage conditions which need to be observed.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1499/regulation/21/made

ETA: C&P the wrong bit

"Form of indication of minimum durability

20.—(1) Subject to the following paragraphs of this regulation, the minimum durability of a food shall be indicated by the words “best before” followed by—

(a)the date up to and including which the food can reasonably be expected to retain its specific properties if properly stored"

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1499/regulation/20/made

That may be the law but it is illogical!

"Before" has a specific meaning, if you saw the word "before" and a date you would not expect that date to be included. 


For example https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/eligibility

Eligibility

You’re eligible for the basic State Pension if you were born before:

• 6 April 1951 if you’re a man
• 6 April 1953 if you’re a woman

If you were born on or after these dates you must claim the new State Pension.

(my emboldening)

And to return to my original post, there were other occasions when Morrison staff were less than helpful

Without wanting to be rude, you've held on to the incident as bad customer service despite being two years ago, it's been pointed out the staff were correct in saying best before includes the date (they should be stating the law not what they consider logical) and yet you've doubled down to say that may be right but they're still wrong as it's illogical. 

Given you can still use a best before product after that date it's unlikely to drop off a cliff in terms of quality so seems a minor point anyway. Perhaps it's worth reflecting on whether you approached that conversation with Morrisons staff as best you could.

You may not be rude, but you could try being accurate!!

I never said anything about the incident being 2 years ago, and there were other occasions besides the one I have quoted. Which is why I am pleased that Morrisons are now either educating their staff or employing more helpful ones.  I did not say they were wrong because it was illogical, I said the law is illogical. In fact, now I come to recall the item in question,was on display the day after the best before date.

I am perfectly aware that you can use an item after the BB date and frequently do so. For your information I always say to any supermarket staff member "Excuse me, but I think this is out of date". I have never had any problem with Tesco staff when drawing their attention to out of date stock, they have always been most appreciative, remove the offending item and check the rest of the stock of that item. The Morrison staff member was just dismissive

It is legal to sell food that has passed the BB date.

Is this actually stated in legislation or is it that there is nothing stated in legislation that says you cannot sell food that has passed the BB date.

The later. One of the principals of English law is that "Everything which is not forbidden is allowed"

Which is why you don't find law saying "you can sell X" only law saying "you can't sell Y" or "you can only sell Y if..." (and that may be case law rather than legislation) 

lincroft1710

Andy_L said:

lincroft1710 said:

Andy_L said:

lincroft1710 said:

pjcox2005 said:

lincroft1710 said:

Andy_L said:

lincroft1710 said:

You must have been lucky or Morrisons have been re-educating their staff. A few years ago one of their staff clearly didn't know that if a best before date was (e.g.) 7 July 2022, then it was no longer at its best on 7 July 2022.

"Form of indication of “use by” date

21.—(1) Where a “use by” date is required in respect of a food it shall be indicated by the words “use by” followed by—

(a)the date up to and including which the food, if properly stored, is recommended for use, and

(b)any storage conditions which need to be observed.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1499/regulation/21/made

ETA: C&P the wrong bit

"Form of indication of minimum durability

20.—(1) Subject to the following paragraphs of this regulation, the minimum durability of a food shall be indicated by the words “best before” followed by—

(a)the date up to and including which the food can reasonably be expected to retain its specific properties if properly stored"

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1499/regulation/20/made

That may be the law but it is illogical!

"Before" has a specific meaning, if you saw the word "before" and a date you would not expect that date to be included. 


For example https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/eligibility

Eligibility

You’re eligible for the basic State Pension if you were born before:

• 6 April 1951 if you’re a man
• 6 April 1953 if you’re a woman

If you were born on or after these dates you must claim the new State Pension.

(my emboldening)

And to return to my original post, there were other occasions when Morrison staff were less than helpful

Without wanting to be rude, you've held on to the incident as bad customer service despite being two years ago, it's been pointed out the staff were correct in saying best before includes the date (they should be stating the law not what they consider logical) and yet you've doubled down to say that may be right but they're still wrong as it's illogical. 

Given you can still use a best before product after that date it's unlikely to drop off a cliff in terms of quality so seems a minor point anyway. Perhaps it's worth reflecting on whether you approached that conversation with Morrisons staff as best you could.

You may not be rude, but you could try being accurate!!

I never said anything about the incident being 2 years ago, and there were other occasions besides the one I have quoted. Which is why I am pleased that Morrisons are now either educating their staff or employing more helpful ones.  I did not say they were wrong because it was illogical, I said the law is illogical. In fact, now I come to recall the item in question,was on display the day after the best before date.

I am perfectly aware that you can use an item after the BB date and frequently do so. For your information I always say to any supermarket staff member "Excuse me, but I think this is out of date". I have never had any problem with Tesco staff when drawing their attention to out of date stock, they have always been most appreciative, remove the offending item and check the rest of the stock of that item. The Morrison staff member was just dismissive

It is legal to sell food that has passed the BB date.

Is this actually stated in legislation or is it that there is nothing stated in legislation that says you cannot sell food that has passed the BB date.

The later. One of the principals of English law is that "Everything which is not forbidden is allowed"

Which is why you don't find law saying "you can sell X" only law saying "you can't sell Y" or "you can only sell Y if..." (and that may be case law rather than legislation) 

So it is not unlawful rather than legal 

Andy_L

lincroft1710 said:

Andy_L said:

lincroft1710 said:

Andy_L said:

lincroft1710 said:

pjcox2005 said:

lincroft1710 said:

Andy_L said:

lincroft1710 said:

You must have been lucky or Morrisons have been re-educating their staff. A few years ago one of their staff clearly didn't know that if a best before date was (e.g.) 7 July 2022, then it was no longer at its best on 7 July 2022.

"Form of indication of “use by” date

21.—(1) Where a “use by” date is required in respect of a food it shall be indicated by the words “use by” followed by—

(a)the date up to and including which the food, if properly stored, is recommended for use, and

(b)any storage conditions which need to be observed.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1499/regulation/21/made

ETA: C&P the wrong bit

"Form of indication of minimum durability

20.—(1) Subject to the following paragraphs of this regulation, the minimum durability of a food shall be indicated by the words “best before” followed by—

(a)the date up to and including which the food can reasonably be expected to retain its specific properties if properly stored"

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1499/regulation/20/made

That may be the law but it is illogical!

"Before" has a specific meaning, if you saw the word "before" and a date you would not expect that date to be included. 


For example https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/eligibility

Eligibility

You’re eligible for the basic State Pension if you were born before:

• 6 April 1951 if you’re a man
• 6 April 1953 if you’re a woman

If you were born on or after these dates you must claim the new State Pension.

(my emboldening)

And to return to my original post, there were other occasions when Morrison staff were less than helpful

Without wanting to be rude, you've held on to the incident as bad customer service despite being two years ago, it's been pointed out the staff were correct in saying best before includes the date (they should be stating the law not what they consider logical) and yet you've doubled down to say that may be right but they're still wrong as it's illogical. 

Given you can still use a best before product after that date it's unlikely to drop off a cliff in terms of quality so seems a minor point anyway. Perhaps it's worth reflecting on whether you approached that conversation with Morrisons staff as best you could.

You may not be rude, but you could try being accurate!!

I never said anything about the incident being 2 years ago, and there were other occasions besides the one I have quoted. Which is why I am pleased that Morrisons are now either educating their staff or employing more helpful ones.  I did not say they were wrong because it was illogical, I said the law is illogical. In fact, now I come to recall the item in question,was on display the day after the best before date.

I am perfectly aware that you can use an item after the BB date and frequently do so. For your information I always say to any supermarket staff member "Excuse me, but I think this is out of date". I have never had any problem with Tesco staff when drawing their attention to out of date stock, they have always been most appreciative, remove the offending item and check the rest of the stock of that item. The Morrison staff member was just dismissive

It is legal to sell food that has passed the BB date.

Is this actually stated in legislation or is it that there is nothing stated in legislation that says you cannot sell food that has passed the BB date.

The later. One of the principals of English law is that "Everything which is not forbidden is allowed"

Which is why you don't find law saying "you can sell X" only law saying "you can't sell Y" or "you can only sell Y if..." (and that may be case law rather than legislation) 

So it is not unlawful rather than legal 

Nice double negative, it would also be not illegal. Other than quality pedantry, your point is?

Morrisons have done nothing wrong by selling food on the day of the best before date.

Equally they would not be breaking the law by selling it after that date (but before the use by date). Unless, in that window of time, the food had become unsafe to consume - perhaps by it not being stored properly

lincroft1710

Andy_L said:

lincroft1710 said:

Andy_L said:

lincroft1710 said:

Andy_L said:

lincroft1710 said:

pjcox2005 said:

lincroft1710 said:

Andy_L said:

lincroft1710 said:

You must have been lucky or Morrisons have been re-educating their staff. A few years ago one of their staff clearly didn't know that if a best before date was (e.g.) 7 July 2022, then it was no longer at its best on 7 July 2022.

"Form of indication of “use by” date

21.—(1) Where a “use by” date is required in respect of a food it shall be indicated by the words “use by” followed by—

(a)the date up to and including which the food, if properly stored, is recommended for use, and

(b)any storage conditions which need to be observed.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1499/regulation/21/made

ETA: C&P the wrong bit

"Form of indication of minimum durability

20.—(1) Subject to the following paragraphs of this regulation, the minimum durability of a food shall be indicated by the words “best before” followed by—

(a)the date up to and including which the food can reasonably be expected to retain its specific properties if properly stored"

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1499/regulation/20/made

That may be the law but it is illogical!

"Before" has a specific meaning, if you saw the word "before" and a date you would not expect that date to be included. 


For example https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/eligibility

Eligibility

You’re eligible for the basic State Pension if you were born before:

• 6 April 1951 if you’re a man
• 6 April 1953 if you’re a woman

If you were born on or after these dates you must claim the new State Pension.

(my emboldening)

And to return to my original post, there were other occasions when Morrison staff were less than helpful

Without wanting to be rude, you've held on to the incident as bad customer service despite being two years ago, it's been pointed out the staff were correct in saying best before includes the date (they should be stating the law not what they consider logical) and yet you've doubled down to say that may be right but they're still wrong as it's illogical. 

Given you can still use a best before product after that date it's unlikely to drop off a cliff in terms of quality so seems a minor point anyway. Perhaps it's worth reflecting on whether you approached that conversation with Morrisons staff as best you could.

You may not be rude, but you could try being accurate!!

I never said anything about the incident being 2 years ago, and there were other occasions besides the one I have quoted. Which is why I am pleased that Morrisons are now either educating their staff or employing more helpful ones.  I did not say they were wrong because it was illogical, I said the law is illogical. In fact, now I come to recall the item in question,was on display the day after the best before date.

I am perfectly aware that you can use an item after the BB date and frequently do so. For your information I always say to any supermarket staff member "Excuse me, but I think this is out of date". I have never had any problem with Tesco staff when drawing their attention to out of date stock, they have always been most appreciative, remove the offending item and check the rest of the stock of that item. The Morrison staff member was just dismissive

It is legal to sell food that has passed the BB date.

Is this actually stated in legislation or is it that there is nothing stated in legislation that says you cannot sell food that has passed the BB date.

The later. One of the principals of English law is that "Everything which is not forbidden is allowed"

Which is why you don't find law saying "you can sell X" only law saying "you can't sell Y" or "you can only sell Y if..." (and that may be case law rather than legislation) 

So it is not unlawful rather than legal 

Nice double negative, it would also be not illegal. Other than quality pedantry, your point is?

Morrisons have done nothing wrong by selling food on the day of the best before date.

Equally they would not be breaking the law by selling it after that date (but before the use by date). Unless, in that window of time, the food had become unsafe to consume - perhaps by it not being stored properly

Legal usually means there is supporting legislation. In this case there is no legislation which specifically says food can be sold past its BB date. But as there is no legislation prohibiting food being sold past its BB date, then selling such food is not unlawful. Double negatives often have a slightly different degree of meaning or strength than a positive.

pjcox2005

lincroft1710 said:

pjcox2005 said:

lincroft1710 said:

Andy_L said:

lincroft1710 said:

You must have been lucky or Morrisons have been re-educating their staff. A few years ago one of their staff clearly didn't know that if a best before date was (e.g.) 7 July 2022, then it was no longer at its best on 7 July 2022.

"Form of indication of “use by” date

21.—(1) Where a “use by” date is required in respect of a food it shall be indicated by the words “use by” followed by—

(a)the date up to and including which the food, if properly stored, is recommended for use, and

(b)any storage conditions which need to be observed.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1499/regulation/21/made

ETA: C&P the wrong bit

"Form of indication of minimum durability

20.—(1) Subject to the following paragraphs of this regulation, the minimum durability of a food shall be indicated by the words “best before” followed by—

(a)the date up to and including which the food can reasonably be expected to retain its specific properties if properly stored"

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1499/regulation/20/made

That may be the law but it is illogical!

"Before" has a specific meaning, if you saw the word "before" and a date you would not expect that date to be included. 


For example https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/eligibility

Eligibility

You’re eligible for the basic State Pension if you were born before:

• 6 April 1951 if you’re a man
• 6 April 1953 if you’re a woman

If you were born on or after these dates you must claim the new State Pension.

(my emboldening)

And to return to my original post, there were other occasions when Morrison staff were less than helpful

Without wanting to be rude, you've held on to the incident as bad customer service despite being two years ago, it's been pointed out the staff were correct in saying best before includes the date (they should be stating the law not what they consider logical) and yet you've doubled down to say that may be right but they're still wrong as it's illogical. 

Given you can still use a best before product after that date it's unlikely to drop off a cliff in terms of quality so seems a minor point anyway. Perhaps it's worth reflecting on whether you approached that conversation with Morrisons staff as best you could.

You may not be rude, but you could try being accurate!!

I never said anything about the incident being 2 years ago, and there were other occasions besides the one I have quoted. Which is why I am pleased that Morrisons are now either educating their staff or employing more helpful ones.  I did not say they were wrong because it was illogical, I said the law is illogical. In fact, now I come to recall the item in question,was on display the day after the best before date.

I am perfectly aware that you can use an item after the BB date and frequently do so. For your information I always say to any supermarket staff member "Excuse me, but I think this is out of date". I have never had any problem with Tesco staff when drawing their attention to out of date stock, they have always been most appreciative, remove the offending item and check the rest of the stock of that item. The Morrison staff member was just dismissive

I accept that i may not have been accurate, you actually said "a few years ago" and i summarised it to 2 years. On reflection, 2 would be the minimum time a few years could be describing but you could have been holding on to this example of bad service (which was actually correct) for much longer than that period.

lincroft1710

pjcox2005 said:

lincroft1710 said:

pjcox2005 said:

lincroft1710 said:

Andy_L said:

lincroft1710 said:

You must have been lucky or Morrisons have been re-educating their staff. A few years ago one of their staff clearly didn't know that if a best before date was (e.g.) 7 July 2022, then it was no longer at its best on 7 July 2022.

"Form of indication of “use by” date

21.—(1) Where a “use by” date is required in respect of a food it shall be indicated by the words “use by” followed by—

(a)the date up to and including which the food, if properly stored, is recommended for use, and

(b)any storage conditions which need to be observed.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1499/regulation/21/made

ETA: C&P the wrong bit

"Form of indication of minimum durability

20.—(1) Subject to the following paragraphs of this regulation, the minimum durability of a food shall be indicated by the words “best before” followed by—

(a)the date up to and including which the food can reasonably be expected to retain its specific properties if properly stored"

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1499/regulation/20/made

That may be the law but it is illogical!

"Before" has a specific meaning, if you saw the word "before" and a date you would not expect that date to be included. 


For example https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/eligibility

Eligibility

You’re eligible for the basic State Pension if you were born before:

• 6 April 1951 if you’re a man
• 6 April 1953 if you’re a woman

If you were born on or after these dates you must claim the new State Pension.

(my emboldening)

And to return to my original post, there were other occasions when Morrison staff were less than helpful

Without wanting to be rude, you've held on to the incident as bad customer service despite being two years ago, it's been pointed out the staff were correct in saying best before includes the date (they should be stating the law not what they consider logical) and yet you've doubled down to say that may be right but they're still wrong as it's illogical. 

Given you can still use a best before product after that date it's unlikely to drop off a cliff in terms of quality so seems a minor point anyway. Perhaps it's worth reflecting on whether you approached that conversation with Morrisons staff as best you could.

You may not be rude, but you could try being accurate!!

I never said anything about the incident being 2 years ago, and there were other occasions besides the one I have quoted. Which is why I am pleased that Morrisons are now either educating their staff or employing more helpful ones.  I did not say they were wrong because it was illogical, I said the law is illogical. In fact, now I come to recall the item in question,was on display the day after the best before date.

I am perfectly aware that you can use an item after the BB date and frequently do so. For your information I always say to any supermarket staff member "Excuse me, but I think this is out of date". I have never had any problem with Tesco staff when drawing their attention to out of date stock, they have always been most appreciative, remove the offending item and check the rest of the stock of that item. The Morrison staff member was just dismissive

I accept that i may not have been accurate, you actually said "a few years ago" and i summarised it to 2 years. On reflection, 2 would be the minimum time a few years could be describing but you could have been holding on to this example of bad service (which was actually correct) for much longer than that period.

Anyway, I'm off to play tennis, i'm not aware of any legislation on this so it may not be a legal activity but it shouldn't be unlawful. 

It was the attitude of the employee that I was not happy with, and there were other occasions where Morrison employees have been less than helpful. In contrast to Tesco whose employees I have always found extremely helpful. So it is pleasing to see that there are exceptionally helpful Morrison employees, which could indicate their staff training may have improved.


I am pleased you can appreciate the difference between legal and not unlawful.