Landowner timeframe to cancel PCN

Half_way

The aim is to get at the least a statement from them saying they do not support this parking charge proceeding to court, and want the parking charge cancelled.

Fruitcake

I won't mention that UKPC are preventing the landowner from cancelling, but instead that the landowner wishes, or has instructed UKPC to cancel.

carb_1

So after submitting my dispute and the telling them that the landowner wishes to cancel, I have a missed call from DCB Legal, should I speak to them?

Umkomaas

carb_1 said:

So after submitting my dispute and the telling them that the landowner wishes to cancel, I have a missed call from DCB Legal, should I speak to them?

All part of the process. Next, expect an email/letter making 'an offer to settle' lower than the charge amount. Ignore that (or robustly tell them where to stick it).  Guess what comes next ...... a discontinuation. Seen in so many recent UKPC/Highview/CP Plus/DCB Legal cases, it's now an almost guaranteed outcome. 

Common denominator - DCB Legal!

Fruitcake

A 'phone call is not worth the paper upon which it is writ. Get/do everything in writing. If they call again, tell them you will only deal with them in writing, then hang up.

Coupon-mad

carb_1 said:

So after submitting my dispute and the telling them that the landowner wishes to cancel, I have a missed call from DCB Legal, should I speak to them?

Nope. Except to tell them to discontinue.

carb_1

I've received the response below via email this morning, looks like they want to pursue the claim, any advice or do I just sit tight and wait for the claim?

"The terms and conditions on the signs stated that parking was permitted for vehicles clearly displaying a valid permit, or otherwise a parking charge notice would be issued. A valid permit was not on display as is demonstrated in the photographic evidence enclosed. As such, the parking charge was issued correctly. 

For reference, the PCN was affixed to your vehicle. A copy of the original PCN has been attached. You were afforded the opportunity to; pay a reduced fee of £60.00 if paid within 14 days or appeal the parking charge. They also informed you of the consequences of late or non-payment. Neither a successful appeal or a payment was made within the relevant time frame.  

The Notice to Keeper was issued to you. A copy is enclosed. You were afforded the opportunity to; appeal the parking charge, transfer liability to the driver (if it was not you) or make payment. Neither a successful appeal, nor an adequate nomination were received, yet payment remains outstanding. 

Whilst we appreciate the evidence you have provided. Please note it is our Clients position that the parking charge was issued correctly, therefore you remain liable to pay the outstanding parking charge.

You have 30 days from the date of this letter to pay the outstanding balance of £160.00. Failure to do so will result in a claim being issued against you without further notice."

Coupon-mad

Dear Sirs,

I have received your patronising response telling me that you 'appreciate' the evidence that I have provided.  Nice to be appreciated. But clearly, you and/or your clients have completely ignored it, as is routinely seen with anything that threatens to interrupt your roboclaim model.

I wasn't surprised to see your template response and now expect more of the same, then there will be a court claim, then (after seeing my defence) you will issue your tedious template letter telling me you - or is it your clients - will be continuing with the claim and finally, close to the hearing, you will no doubt discontinue.

What a waste of my time and yours, as well as an abuse of the small claims process this is.

Outstanding issues:

What are your clients doing about the fact that the landowner wants the rogue parking charge cancelled?  Are they putting their fingers in their ears, ignoring the 'noise' even though this means they are annoying their client and the lack of commercial justification means that there is no legitimate interest in pursuing a claim?

Further, your response and your LBC failed to provide the required copy of the contract. This means contemporaneous images of the signs, including the mandatory Entrance Sign, which is fundamental to any claim about parking under an alleged contract.

The BPA Code of Practice v6 applied at the time:

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS_Code_of_Practice_October_2015_update_V6..pdf

It is not a 'very small' area nor a place where an entrance sign would be impractical, so these rules apply (note the repetition of 'must'):

 "18.2 Entrance signs play an important part in establishing a parking contract and deterring trespassers. Therefore, as well as the signs you must have telling drivers about the terms and conditions for parking, you must also have a standard form of entrance sign at the entrance to the parking area. Entrance signs must tell drivers that the car park is managed and that there are terms and conditions they must be aware of. Entrance signs must follow some minimum general principles and be in a standard format. The size of the sign must take into account the expected speed of vehicles approaching the car park, and it is recommended that you follow Department for Transport guidance on this. See Appendix B for an example of an entrance sign and more information about their use. A standard form of entrance sign must be placed at the entrance to the parking area."   

As a reminder and to assist you, here is the pre-action protocol ('the PAP') for debt claims that you are currently breaching:

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/debt-pap.pdf 

I remind you that the PAP says:

"5.2 If the debtor requests a document or information, the creditor must – 

(a) provide the document or information; or 

(b) explain why the document or information is unavailable, within 30 days of receipt of the request."

You have done neither. 

I am reasonably giving you/UKPC another 30 days to reply with 5.2(a) or (b), in order to comply with the PAP. 

As for the £60 that DCB has added (allegedly not for UKPC but apparently for your own profit and to sidestep the legal fees cap of £50 that you will also claim on top) it is a fact that no 'additional costs' were incurred by UKPC over and above the simple letter chain model, already more than covered by the £100 parking charge.

You've shown me a copy of a PCN and a NTK issued by your clients, despite the fact the BPA Code of Practice has for many years now, made it compulsory to then send two specific extra letters, and this is before the parking operator can even think about escalation:

  23.4
Once you have become able to use your rights to recover from the keeper under POFA 2012 you must do so in line with the following steps in the Code. (a) Notification Letter (b) Final Reminder. (c) Court action or charge recovery
• When you have sent the final reminder, you must wait at least 14 days before taking further action, such as starting court action or debt recovery against the keeper   

I require your clients to prove their 'actual costs' and also to prove that they sent the mandatory 'Notification Letter' and 'Final Reminder' before beginning the DRA gaslighting route and enhancing the sum of money for no justified reason, a form of unjust enrichment shared between the likes of you/your clients that the Government this year called 'extorting money from motorists'.

The further documents that I require from you, in order for you to comply with the PAP, are:

(i) the invoice showing they paid £60 to any self-styled 'debt recovery' firm they used as part of the gaslighting letter chain
and

(ii) evidence that they first sent the compulsory 'Notification Letter' and 'Final Reminder' in accordance with the BPA Code of Practice
(iii) contemporaneous images of the alleged contract (t&cs sign) and Entrance Sign.

Kindly provide these documents (i), (ii) and (iii) or explain why these are unavailable, so that I can be as appreciative of their evidence as you are of mine.

Your client has 30 days to supply the missing information.

yours faithfully, 

carb_1

Thanks Coupon-mad, that is very helpful and detailed!

Le_Kirk

Coupon-mad said:

Dear Sirs,

I have received your patronising response telling me that you 'appreciate' the evidence that I have provided.  Nice to be appreciated. ....................

Nice!  I detect that you have been sucking lemons again @Coupon-mad to give yourself the right amount of vitriol for the letter!