Good morning all - Energy Q from a novice... Moved into our new property in April and went on the

Coffeekup

Prichard said:
Truth be told; I’m going to need to buy a new boiler anyway in the next couple of years.
So when I do I might ask the engineers for a run down in it all.

With prices the way they are and are going, now would be a good time to get a new one. 

With the amount of gas you've been using since April, come December it'll be far greater amount, I'm guessing you'll recoup the savings within 12-18 month's. 

It worth investigating in better doors and windows too to keep as much of that heat in...

markin

If you cant replace the windows or at least the kids rooms use the clear plastic that you stick over the window to make an air gap.

The gas heating would never heat the water as its thermostat would never kick it on, So around 7 kwh a day 2555 a year.   

7kwh is very close 1170 / 72 days = 16kwh/day  -7 =  9kwh/day = A lot more of a sensible number for working from home.  3285 kwh annual.

QrizB

Coffeekup said:

With prices the way they are and are going, now would be a good time to get a new one. 

With the amount of gas you've been using since April, come December it'll be far greater amount, I'm guessing you'll recoup the savings within 12-18 months.

Unless the OPs boiler is completely knackered (and he said it was serviced recently so that's unlikely) the payback period for a replacement will be at least a decade.

Alnat1

Seems you have a reasonable boiler for now so might make more financial sense to concentrate on insulating your house.

Replacement windows are a big cost but there's lots of cheaper fixes that will help and you've a few months to get them sorted before winter. Loft and hot water tank insulation, draught proofing for doors, windows and if you have an unused chimney, thick curtains or add linings, lots more information and tips online.

BUFF

QrizB said:

Coffeekup said:

With prices the way they are and are going, now would be a good time to get a new one. 

With the amount of gas you've been using since April, come December it'll be far greater amount, I'm guessing you'll recoup the savings within 12-18 months.

Unless the OPs boiler is completely knackered (and he said it was serviced recently so that's unlikely) the payback period for a replacement will be at least a decade.

I dunno. Of course it depends what gas prices do but at current projected rates (~12p/kWh for SVT come October) & 21,500kWh p.a. he is looking at ~£2500 for purely gas consumption (SC on top).

Depending upon what exactly he is coming from in terms of boiler & controls ( he thinks 15-20 years old) & what he goes to but, if used properly, I reckon he could save anywhere between 10-30% (possibly even more if the controls really allow to get a grip on usage) so £250-750 per annum.
Say boiler, controls & fitting ~£3.5k so it could take from under 5 years-14 years to break even but within the expected life of a boiler..
Would be worth knowing what boiler & controls are currently fitted.

QrizB

BUFF said:

QrizB said:

Coffeekup said:

With prices the way they are and are going, now would be a good time to get a new one. 

With the amount of gas you've been using since April, come December it'll be far greater amount, I'm guessing you'll recoup the savings within 12-18 months.

Unless the OPs boiler is completely knackered (and he said it was serviced recently so that's unlikely) the payback period for a replacement will be at least a decade.

I dunno. Of course it depends what gas prices do but at current projected rates (~12p/kWh for SVT come October) & 21,500kWh p.a. he is looking at ~£2500 for purely gas consumption (SC on top).

There are a couple of threads (this is one) where I'm going to make myself unpopular by pointing out that "current prices" aren't likely to last.

You can extract natural gas and sell it at 2p/kWh for a profit. The only reason gas is as expensive today as it is, with wholesale prices averaging 6p/kWh over the last 12 months, is because it takes time to build supply-side capacity.

You cannot use current prices to justify a multi-year ROI calculation as they're unlikely to remain high for that long.

Looking at this particular case:

• A 20-year-old boiler is likely to be a condensing boiler and, when new, would have been close to 90% efficient. Let's say it's lost a bit and is now only 80% efficient.
• A brand-new boiler will still be a condensing boiler. It will still only be 90% efficient.
• Let's sat this saves the OP 2500kWh/yr of gas. While that might be a saving of £300 this year if gas rises to 12p/kWh, if gas prices drop back to only double the long-term average, that's 6p/kWh so future years will see savings of £150/yr.
• At that rate, a £3500 boiler upgrade will take 22 years to pay for itself.
  

BUFF

Whilst I agree that gas prices likely will drop at some point  I do think that we are probably in for at least a couple of years of very high prices compared to the previous ~10 years (sadly we don't have 20/20 futurevision). Especially if the govt. were to decide to start adding levies to gas to accelerate the movement to electricity based solutions.

Likely, maybe - do we know, no & why I had such a large variation in timespan. Hence why I said that it would be useful to know exactly what is fitted.
 A brand new boiler could be ~94/95% efficient these days (under some methodologies some manufacturers will claim over 100% as they recover additional latent energy from the intake air not just that from the fuel).
Similarly, I have personal experience of what difference control changes can make (again would be useful to know what already fitted). This can be further improved if that increased control allows users to make changes to their routine/set up etc. compounding improvement.
In my case, boiler+controls+behaviour change actually resulted in a consumption saving of over 50%. Now, I realise that is an extreme example & not representative for most (e.g. many would not consider some of my behaviour changes) but it is a possibility for some depending upon where they start & where they decide to finish.

Whilst, the payback period (if any) is obviously changeable according to kWh price & efficiency variables maximum savings will be gained when both of those are maximised. Hopefully, <prays> ,the maximum kWh price is in the near term so (assuming that you intend to stay in the same building for a considerable time*) to maximise whatever available savings you would similarly want to do the replacement in the near term (& ideally ahead of the hike). 
A better boiler+ controls will also likely lead to comfort improvements (hard to put a price on).

The OP has also expressed feeling that the boiler is reaching end of life & will need replacement anyway (probably in the short term rather than long) . If it should fail & need an emergency replacement (in which case ROI considerations often go out the door in favour of speed of replacement) then a hasty emergency replacement may not achieve the same result as a well-considered & planned replacement.

Anyway, it's all more info for the OP to inform their decision & save/spend their money.


*if you don't, having an updated heating system may still help to sell quicker/at a higher price