EV Discussion thread

noitsnotme

JKenH said:

noitsnotme said:

Grumpy_chap said:

noitsnotme said:

Grumpy_chap said:

What software version are you on?  This is the Parking Assist “upgrade” that was part of the holiday software update in December to version 2023.44.30.4.  It was in the release notes.

The old parking assist images with the squiggly lines as below are gone.

I am on software update 2023.44.30.8. 
I just checked the release notes and they do say that included "Park Assist Upgrade" so that it will display a "high fidelity 3D representation".
I am not opposed to an enhanced visual display, but the previous display which you have shared a graphic of was perfectly crystal clear, accurate and simple.  If the display graphic is to be "enhanced" I don't want that to be at the expense of usability.

In the picture I posted upthread, the rear of the car is shown as crashed into the brick wall behind the car where it is actually 2'-6" away.  The brick wall displays as simply a series of uneven blobs; you would expect a brisk wall to be a very easy thing to detect and display correctly as it is a clear and defined regular structure.
The flower bed to the side is 3' away.  Oddly, the edge of the flowerbed has a fairly defined straight line yet is a softer and harder to interpret profile, while the fence and path beyond are shown as blurry blobs (though less important as they are not near the car).

When I drive onto the driveway, the brick pillar which I rally am keen to avoid does not even show in the distance measurement indications.

I am intrigued by the car also being shown as having two scorching hot streak lines behind the rear - almost like a DeLorean might be expected to show.  Now, that would be a good software update

I have also had a lot of caution / warning messages display stating that the distance measurement is inaccurate.  All of these changes, the messages and the blurry graphics seem to have happened together and at the same time as a bout of wet weather.  I had put the two down to dirty lenses, but cleaning the lenses yesterday made no improvement.

It does seem as though "improved" graphics has not improved the graphics and degraded the functionality.

We are back to Tesla having got the "electric" part of the electric car to a great place but the "car" part being woeful.

It is a very ‘Marmite’ update.  Personally I prefer it to the old version.  The old version was not accurate in my experience and often showed jumping/glitching graphics. When reversed up close to my house for charging it used to show it as a large truck embedded in the back of the car!  The new 3D rendering now shows clearly where the wall is with the correct gap in between and even shows where 2 plant pots are in front of the house.

As with all of this stuff I use them as parking aids, not in isolation.  Mirrors, cameras and the good old Mark 1 eyeball all get utilised.  I wouldn’t trust the 3D visualisation alone but I do find it more useful than the previous version.

Have you ever driven a car with a Birds Eye view camera system. It is light years ahead of Tesla’s system and was being used by Nissan over 10 years ago. 

Yes.  See my previous response to you RE my dads Nissan Juke.

[quote]The problem is Tesla fans will never say anything about their car is c**p so Tesla continue to get away with inferior technology. Most modern cars have ultra sonic parking sensors - not current Teslas. Many cars have Lidar - not Tesla any more.[/quote]

I did say in that previous post that Tesla could do far better.  I’m not a Tesla fanboy by any means.  I lease a Tesla through my limited company and it’s the newest/nicest car I’ve ever had.  I spent years motoring on a budget and fixing as much myself as I could.  Not because I couldn’t afford, but because I’m tight!  I got fed up with crawling under cars and decided now was the time to treat myself.

I don’t really care that other cars have a better Birds Eye view system.  My previous car was a 15 year old Ford C-Max so what I have now is pure luxury in comparison.  Many things could be better but overall I’m happy with my Tesla experience.  I realise many others are not.  Such is life.

Martyn1981

Netexporter said:

As of course the electricity just arrives at our plugs by magic - no need to build a transmission grid, wind turbines, solar farms, generating plant, transport gas or coal around the world or build nuclear power stations.

As of course the petrol/diesel just arrives at our pumps by magic - no need to drill oil wells, build drilling rigs, pipelines, tankers, refineries...

In fairness to petrol, it's amazing that it has lasted so long, despite being such a poor and inefficient idea/process. Just goes to show what happens when externalities aren't considered.

Imagine if somebody presented a device today, after a century of electric power, with hundreds of reciprocating and other moving parts, that was 25% fuel efficient, produced toxic fumes and made a lot of noise.

The Smash aliens would die laughing.

Yep, I've thought the same, it does seem silly looking at it in reverse, a bit like that old Nissan add, showing petrol engined microwaves, and phones etc..

But great to see now that we have the technology to get ~75% of the power at the 'powerstation' delivered to the road. Things are looking very promising, and I hope that, that ~75% will improve, but perhaps the potential improvements in transmission, charging, batt efficiency etc are quite small now.

I have been surprised at the claims (claims to be fair) that induction charging isn't much worse than using cables. If that's correct, then that could make charging for everyone/everywhere a lot easier.

noitsnotme

Grumpy_chap said:

noitsnotme said:

It is a very ‘Marmite’ update.  Personally I prefer it to the old version.  The old version was not accurate in my experience and often showed jumping/glitching graphics. When reversed up close to my house for charging it used to show it as a large truck embedded in the back of the car!  The new 3D rendering now shows clearly where the wall is with the correct gap in between and even shows where 2 plant pots are in front of the house.

Your experience on the update is clearly vastly different to mine.  The blobby smudges I get are no use to anyone.  Against those, the jumpy graphics of old were superior.  Are you saying your types of images are not just the blobs I shared?  You do seem to be suggesting that is the case.

I’m seeing pretty much what you’re seeing.  It’s better in daylight obviously but even with some light source at night it still ok.  On one side of my drive I have to reverse in between 2 walls and they are rendered ok even a night, although a nearby street light helps.

It’s not perfect by any means and as I’ve mentioned above twice now, there are far better solutions out there (Nissan).

As I said, it’s very Marmite.  I just happen to be one of those that prefers it to the previous offering.

Grumpy_chap

noitsnotme said:

It’s not perfect by any means and as I’ve mentioned above twice now, there are far better solutions out there (Nissan).

As I said, it’s very Marmite.  I just happen to be one of those that prefers it to the previous offering.

Perhaps the biggest thing we can take from this is the clear evidence that technology is very far away from delivering the fully autonomous self-driving car that we are always promised "tomorrow".

JKenH

mgfvvc said:

JKenH said:

Remember that EVs are only taking off because of government support and financial incentives.

The IEA reckons that explicit subsidies for fossil fuels hit $1,000,000,000,000 in 2022.

We had this discussion quite recently. Explicit subsidies aren’t quite what you might think they are.  A substantial portion of the £1trn figure you quote was from governments around the world softening the blow of increased fuel prices following the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It was not an attempt to support the fossil fuel industry. The IEA, IMF etc, however, class this an explicit subsidy for fossil fuels. Governments spent this money so that their populations could afford to heat and power their homes and businesses remain viable. The alternative would have been people dying because they couldn’t afford to heat their homes, suffering malnutrition because they couldn’t afford healthy food. Businesses would have closed with a substantial loss of jobs. Even hospital services may have been cut because of increased heating and electrify costs. You, I, all of us on here benefited. 

Perhaps you would have preferred the alternative.

Contrast this with subsidies to the EV industry which are aimed specifically at promoting or supporting that industry. They include direct subsidies to companies like BMW and Tata to build plants in this country, and tax breaks to businesses and individuals - not to prevent hardship to individuals and businesses but because they want us to buy EVs instead of ICE cars. Other countries are providing grants to reduce the prices of uncompetitive electric vehicles. Governments support renewable energy generators by providing minimum prices. That is what an explicit subsidy to an industry really looks like. 

Netexporter

The fossil fuel industry doesn't pay for the negative health and environmental impacts of their products. That is an enormous subsidy.

Grumpy_chap

JKenH said:

Contrast this with subsidies to the EV industry which are aimed specifically at promoting or supporting that industry. They include direct subsidies to companies like BMW and Tata to build plants in this country, 

Haven't there always been subsidies to encourage factories?

• British steel / Tata
• Ford Halewood / Jaguar
• Nissan
• Toyota
• Honda

Just some from the top of my head and not linked to EV's

noitsnotme

Grumpy_chap said:

noitsnotme said:

It’s not perfect by any means and as I’ve mentioned above twice now, there are far better solutions out there (Nissan).

As I said, it’s very Marmite.  I just happen to be one of those that prefers it to the previous offering.

Perhaps the biggest thing we can take from this is the clear evidence that technology is very far away from delivering the fully autonomous self-driving car that we are always promised "tomorrow".

Absolutely.  I’m not sure that’s a bad thing though.  I’m currently enjoying driving again.

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

Contrast this with subsidies to the EV industry which are aimed specifically at promoting or supporting that industry. They include direct subsidies to companies like BMW and Tata to build plants in this country, 

Haven't there always been subsidies to encourage factories?

• British steel / Tata
• Ford Halewood / Jaguar
• Nissan
• Toyota
• Honda

Just some from the top of my head and not linked to EV's

Indeed, there have. I was just making the distinction between supporting a specific sector/industry and the “explicit” subsidy to the fossil fuel industry claimed by IMF and IEA when in fact governments were just supporting the general public to alleviate the spike in the cost of heating and power caused by the Russia Ukraine conflict. 

JKenH

noitsnotme said:

JKenH said:

noitsnotme said:

Grumpy_chap said:

noitsnotme said:

Grumpy_chap said:

What software version are you on?  This is the Parking Assist “upgrade” that was part of the holiday software update in December to version 2023.44.30.4.  It was in the release notes.

The old parking assist images with the squiggly lines as below are gone.

I am on software update 2023.44.30.8. 
I just checked the release notes and they do say that included "Park Assist Upgrade" so that it will display a "high fidelity 3D representation".
I am not opposed to an enhanced visual display, but the previous display which you have shared a graphic of was perfectly crystal clear, accurate and simple.  If the display graphic is to be "enhanced" I don't want that to be at the expense of usability.

In the picture I posted upthread, the rear of the car is shown as crashed into the brick wall behind the car where it is actually 2'-6" away.  The brick wall displays as simply a series of uneven blobs; you would expect a brisk wall to be a very easy thing to detect and display correctly as it is a clear and defined regular structure.
The flower bed to the side is 3' away.  Oddly, the edge of the flowerbed has a fairly defined straight line yet is a softer and harder to interpret profile, while the fence and path beyond are shown as blurry blobs (though less important as they are not near the car).

When I drive onto the driveway, the brick pillar which I rally am keen to avoid does not even show in the distance measurement indications.

I am intrigued by the car also being shown as having two scorching hot streak lines behind the rear - almost like a DeLorean might be expected to show.  Now, that would be a good software update

I have also had a lot of caution / warning messages display stating that the distance measurement is inaccurate.  All of these changes, the messages and the blurry graphics seem to have happened together and at the same time as a bout of wet weather.  I had put the two down to dirty lenses, but cleaning the lenses yesterday made no improvement.

It does seem as though "improved" graphics has not improved the graphics and degraded the functionality.

We are back to Tesla having got the "electric" part of the electric car to a great place but the "car" part being woeful.

It is a very ‘Marmite’ update.  Personally I prefer it to the old version.  The old version was not accurate in my experience and often showed jumping/glitching graphics. When reversed up close to my house for charging it used to show it as a large truck embedded in the back of the car!  The new 3D rendering now shows clearly where the wall is with the correct gap in between and even shows where 2 plant pots are in front of the house.

As with all of this stuff I use them as parking aids, not in isolation.  Mirrors, cameras and the good old Mark 1 eyeball all get utilised.  I wouldn’t trust the 3D visualisation alone but I do find it more useful than the previous version.

Have you ever driven a car with a Birds Eye view camera system. It is light years ahead of Tesla’s system and was being used by Nissan over 10 years ago. 

Yes.  See my previous response to you RE my dads Nissan Juke.

[quote]The problem is Tesla fans will never say anything about their car is c**p so Tesla continue to get away with inferior technology. Most modern cars have ultra sonic parking sensors - not current Teslas. Many cars have Lidar - not Tesla any more.[/quote]

I did say in that previous post that Tesla could do far better.  I’m not a Tesla fanboy by any means.  I lease a Tesla through my limited company and it’s the newest/nicest car I’ve ever had.  I spent years motoring on a budget and fixing as much myself as I could.  Not because I couldn’t afford, but because I’m tight!  I got fed up with crawling under cars and decided now was the time to treat myself.

I don’t really care that other cars have a better Birds Eye view system.  My previous car was a 15 year old Ford C-Max so what I have now is pure luxury in comparison.  Many things could be better but overall I’m happy with my Tesla experience.  I realise many others are not.  Such is life.

Sorry, I had missed your earlier reply to me. I have been quite busy posting and sometimes do miss something that comes in while I am composing. Apologies.