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EV Discussion thread

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  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 15,373 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    JKenH said:

    *Not suggesting we all park at CW's, one hell of a detour for 99.99%+ of most people's trips :o . But now I'm wondering if folk living near Wimbledon, or Wembley Stadium etc, are party to the scheme?  
    I am not sure about the "use my charger" schemes, but I live near to a major sport stadium and once considered the "park on my drive" type schemes as a way to make a little bit of pocket money.  The scheme I looked at would not register you unless you provided evidence of business insurance to cover the risk of a driver crashing into the house or damage being caused to the vehicle while parked.  Then the scheme would charge 40% of the total as a fee to cover their part of the service, the website, money collection etc.  Then the scheme said they would report annually to HMRC so that earnings were properly declared.  It was all too much bother frankly.
    There is an MSE forum thread on renting out your electric charger

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6336224/renting-out-a-home-charging-point/p2

    But would you want the hassle? 


    Indeed.
    I wouldn't want the hassle of "park on my drive" and the "use my charger" only has far more complexity.
    Plus, standard rules prohibit making a profit from the reselling of electricity.  I know there are exemptions for commercial charge points but I am not entirely sure those exemptions apply to a charge point at a domestic site.
    Maybe the scheme work on reselling the electricity at cost but charging extra for the parking space?
    Given your interest in the idea, here are some links.

    There are lots of schemes now in operation, and this link mentions some of them, but the one that appears to be the largest(?), and Octopus Energy have now partnered with is Co Charger
    Mart. Cardiff. 8.72 kWp PV systems (2.12 SSW 4.6 ESE & 2.0 WNW). 20kWh battery storage. Two A2A units for cleaner heating. Two BEV's for cleaner driving.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • JKenH
    JKenH Posts: 5,117 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper

    *Not suggesting we all park at CW's, one hell of a detour for 99.99%+ of most people's trips :o . But now I'm wondering if folk living near Wimbledon, or Wembley Stadium etc, are party to the scheme?  
    I am not sure about the "use my charger" schemes, but I live near to a major sport stadium and once considered the "park on my drive" type schemes as a way to make a little bit of pocket money.  The scheme I looked at would not register you unless you provided evidence of business insurance to cover the risk of a driver crashing into the house or damage being caused to the vehicle while parked.  Then the scheme would charge 40% of the total as a fee to cover their part of the service, the website, money collection etc.  Then the scheme said they would report annually to HMRC so that earnings were properly declared.  It was all too much bother frankly.
    It can happen. I would occasionally park one of our cars on the neighbours’ drive (with their consent) to give me a bit more space when manoeuvring a race car, car trailer and motorhome on our drive. One morning, our neighbour forgot my wife’s car was on their drive and reversed out of his garage on “autopilot” into the passenger door.

    There is always a risk that you or your children might scratch your “customer’s” car when squeezing past (perhaps, with a bicycle) if space is tight or your customer might just return to their car and “notice” a scratch that wasn’t there before. 
    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)
  • Magnitio
    Magnitio Posts: 1,207 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    There are a number of people in nearby villages who use JustPark to rent out their drives with charging socket. A couple are within walking distance of the local railway station. Typical cost is 40p/kWh, but there is an additional parking fee as well. Might make sense for someone without the facilities to charge at home.
    6.4kWp (16 * 400Wp REC Alpha) facing ESE + 5kW Huawei inverter + 10kWh Huawei battery. Buckinghamshire.
  • noitsnotme
    noitsnotme Posts: 1,297 Forumite
    Fifth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    JKenH said:


    Edit: in 2021 Tesla sold 34783 Model 3s, 19,071 in 2022 and in 2023 just 13536. There were just 701 non Model Y sales  (mainly Model 3s as The S and X are now LHD only) in December, traditionally a good month for Tesla and Model 3, compared to 5704 Model 3 sales in December 2022.
    Sorry for the late reply, but the reduced December Model 3 sales could be down to everyone waiting for the facelift model (so called Highland).  I believe the first ones will be appearing later this month.

    It will be interesting to see if there a big jump in the January figures.
  • JKenH
    JKenH Posts: 5,117 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    JKenH said:


    Edit: in 2021 Tesla sold 34783 Model 3s, 19,071 in 2022 and in 2023 just 13536. There were just 701 non Model Y sales  (mainly Model 3s as The S and X are now LHD only) in December, traditionally a good month for Tesla and Model 3, compared to 5704 Model 3 sales in December 2022.
    Sorry for the late reply, but the reduced December Model 3 sales could be down to everyone waiting for the facelift model (so called Highland).  I believe the first ones will be appearing later this month.

    It will be interesting to see if there a big jump in the January figures.
    Red Sea pirates permitting. 
    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)
  • JKenH
    JKenH Posts: 5,117 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper

    Not a new story, it comes up every year, but I am posting because of the graphs shown which suggest the TM3 SR+ might only achieve around half its EPA range at around 0C and 60% or so in ideal conditions. The LR AWD fares the best of the TM3 models. What winter  (if we get one) range might we see in the UK? 

    EVs Lose 30% Of Their Range On Average In The Winter Vs. Ideal Conditions



    https://insideevs.com/news/704318/ev-winter-range-loss-vs-ideal-conditions/

    By contrast the Hyundai Kona can achieve around 130% of EPA range in ideal conditions but this drops off rapidly below 5C.
    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)
  • 1961Nick
    1961Nick Posts: 2,107 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    JKenH said:

    Not a new story, it comes up every year, but I am posting because of the graphs shown which suggest the TM3 SR+ might only achieve around half its EPA range at around 0C and 60% or so in ideal conditions. The LR AWD fares the best of the TM3 models. What winter  (if we get one) range might we see in the UK? 

    EVs Lose 30% Of Their Range On Average In The Winter Vs. Ideal Conditions



    https://insideevs.com/news/704318/ev-winter-range-loss-vs-ideal-conditions/

    By contrast the Hyundai Kona can achieve around 130% of EPA range in ideal conditions but this drops off rapidly below 5C.
    The 'dashboard' range of my M3P is currently 297 miles. With an ambient temperature of 60 -70F it'll achieve 100% of that range without any special effort.

    The winter range (32F) without preconditioning is around 225 miles so a 25% drop. Calculating the actual winter range isn't easy because most of the time you preheat the cabin & battery so the impact is reduced. Preheating obviously makes a big difference to short run economy but less so on longer trips.

    It'd be interesting to see how Mart & Grumpy's figures compare with mine?
    4kWp (black/black) - Sofar Inverter - SSE(141°) - 30° pitch - North Lincs
    Installed June 2013 - PVGIS = 3400
    Sofar ME3000SP Inverter & 5 x Pylontech US2000B Plus & 3 x US2000C Batteries - 19.2kWh
  • Grumpy_chap
    Grumpy_chap Posts: 18,233 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    1961Nick said:

    It'd be interesting to see how Mart & Grumpy's figures compare with mine?
    Winter has not really arrived here yet.
    Tuesday was the first time (ever) that it was cold enough in the morning for me to try the cabin pre-heat - lovely extra comfort.
    It was frosty yesterday, but I did not need to use the car.
    I have so say, I have two fairly regular journeys that I am making at the moment and I have not seen a marked difference in the range remaining that would be statistically significant.  
    The onboard display is not showing as low energy consumption (Wh/mile) as the best I saw, so that may indicate things are being affected.

    I will post monthly miles/kWh for December and January once February arrives.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 15,373 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    1961Nick said:
    JKenH said:

    Not a new story, it comes up every year, but I am posting because of the graphs shown which suggest the TM3 SR+ might only achieve around half its EPA range at around 0C and 60% or so in ideal conditions. The LR AWD fares the best of the TM3 models. What winter  (if we get one) range might we see in the UK? 

    EVs Lose 30% Of Their Range On Average In The Winter Vs. Ideal Conditions



    https://insideevs.com/news/704318/ev-winter-range-loss-vs-ideal-conditions/

    By contrast the Hyundai Kona can achieve around 130% of EPA range in ideal conditions but this drops off rapidly below 5C.
    The 'dashboard' range of my M3P is currently 297 miles. With an ambient temperature of 60 -70F it'll achieve 100% of that range without any special effort.

    The winter range (32F) without preconditioning is around 225 miles so a 25% drop. Calculating the actual winter range isn't easy because most of the time you preheat the cabin & battery so the impact is reduced. Preheating obviously makes a big difference to short run economy but less so on longer trips.

    It'd be interesting to see how Mart & Grumpy's figures compare with mine?
    Yep, same here. But I don't tend to do much pre-heating/cooling, partly because I forget, and also my inner-nerd kicks in, so I like to see the numbers. Typically drive with the wh/mile display on the bottom right, instead of radio/music track showing.

    Fun to see the wh/mile in the 500 to 1,000 range at the start of a drive in very cold, or very hot weather, then quickly settling down after a mile or so. Last week drove about 22 miles (2 x 11), with a break of several hours inbetween. Averaged under 300Wh, despite several miles in both directions at about 90(ish) and very cold start for the first leg, with reduced regen warnings at the start.

    For lots of mini trips, then the impact of cabin heating etc is higher (as you say), so around 400Wh/mile (2.5m/kWh), but of course similar impact on an ICEV with cold engine/cabin, and such trips aren't a range concern as car can be charged as needed.

    Very, very wet roads are when I see the worst efficiencies, due to drag, so not a BEV specific issue.
    Mart. Cardiff. 8.72 kWp PV systems (2.12 SSW 4.6 ESE & 2.0 WNW). 20kWh battery storage. Two A2A units for cleaner heating. Two BEV's for cleaner driving.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • 1961Nick
    1961Nick Posts: 2,107 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    These are my consumption figures (Wh/mile) for 2023 measured at 3 points of reference:

    Trip computer:     282 
    Battery:                311 
    Electricity meter:  330 

    (11,123 miles)
     
    4kWp (black/black) - Sofar Inverter - SSE(141°) - 30° pitch - North Lincs
    Installed June 2013 - PVGIS = 3400
    Sofar ME3000SP Inverter & 5 x Pylontech US2000B Plus & 3 x US2000C Batteries - 19.2kWh
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