Pension report advise

TBagpuss

Gsea said:

Hi TBagpuss,

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I'm still awaiting feedback from my solicitor as to my options regarding agreeing to the report. However by the sound of it, if she does insist I don't have a choice, does she need my agreement to go ahead with the report or can she go ahead and initiate one.

TIA

It would be unusual forher to get one alone, if you refused I think it is more likely that her solicitor would advise her to apply formally to the court and then seek an order for a report to be obtained . The standard is then that the costs are split equally.

If she got one independently then the risk she takes are that she ends up with the whole bill, and no guarantee that you will accept the findings and recommendations, and you have no say in which expert is instructed or the wording of the letter of instruction. I very much doubt that her solicitor would suggest that. 

Gsea

Hi TBagpuss,

Sure enough the threat of an court order has arrived with my solicitor, who now agrees I should go ahead with getting a report. I will be asking for the cost to be shared, however the more I go into this unfortunate process the more I'm beginning to think there is no equality in divorce. I do hope I am proved wrong.

Until next time, many thanks!

Duncks

Gsea said:

Thanks Silvertabby,

I'm 60 and she is 59. That's interesting that she wont be able to access her half of that pension until SPA. I have obtained a CEV for divorce purposes (at a cost of £180). Offsetting would work for me, not sure if it works for her.

Many thanks
Gsea

I'm in the same situation, but my pension providers have told that the CEV has to be done by an actuary as my pension is in payment, and the fee will be £1000
Is there a cheaper alternative; who did you use for yours?

TBagpuss

Gsea said:

Hi TBagpuss,

Sure enough the threat of an court order has arrived with my solicitor, who now agrees I should go ahead with getting a report. I will be asking for the cost to be shared, however the more I go into this unfortunate process the more I'm beginning to think there is no equality in divorce. I do hope I am proved wrong.

Until next time, many thanks!

Well, you're partially right - things are not yet equal, but that works in your favour - there have been multiple studies which show that men still end up being significantly better off following divorce than women do, although it is slowly becoming less unequal.

@Duncks the CEYV is different from the peiosnions report - if a pension is not yet in payment then pension companies have to provide a CETV and cannot charge,(up to one free CETV evey 12 months, additional information or a second CETV within 12 months may attract charges)  if the pension is in payment then the calcualtations are more complex and it is normal to make a charge, it's down to each pension scheme to set their own charges 

Brie

Retireinten said:

If the report is insisted upon can you not request this is paid for fully by the person requesting the report, ie your wife? Or at the very least the report costs are split 50/50. This is primarily in her interest afterall. 

Why is it only the wife's interest to ensure she gets a fair split of assets?  

@Silvertabby
Regardless of when you started to draw your pension, your wife won't be able to access her part before SPA  unless she takes a reduction for early payment.  Complicated?  You bet !  Far simpler to get the CETV valuation and use that as an offset against the DC.

I disagree - why would she have to wait til SPA?  I would assume she would be able to access it at the normal retirement age - which may be 60 or 65 or something else according to the T&Cs.  But I do agree it's complicated and perhaps if there are other assets the transfer value at an agreed date might be used as something on the husband's side of the balance sheet which is matched by an equal valued something on the wife's side (bank account, property etc)

Silvertabby

Brie said:

Retireinten said:

If the report is insisted upon can you not request this is paid for fully by the person requesting the report, ie your wife? Or at the very least the report costs are split 50/50. This is primarily in her interest afterall. 

Why is it only the wife's interest to ensure she gets a fair split of assets?  

@Silvertabby
Regardless of when you started to draw your pension, your wife won't be able to access her part before SPA  unless she takes a reduction for early payment.  Complicated?  You bet !  Far simpler to get the CETV valuation and use that as an offset against the DC.

I disagree - why would she have to wait til SPA?  I would assume she would be able to access it at the normal retirement age - which may be 60 or 65 or something else according to the T&Cs.  But I do agree it's complicated and perhaps if there are other assets the transfer value at an agreed date might be used as something on the husband's side of the balance sheet which is matched by an equal valued something on the wife's side (bank account, property etc)

It depends on the scheme rules, but I would expect that any entitlement to an early NRA would only apply to the original pensioner, and not the (new member) pension credit member, for whom normal retirement date would be SPA.  That's certainly the case in public sector pensions, but I'm happy to stand corrected if any private sector schemes do it differently.

An extreme example would be in the case of the Armed Forces pension:  
Husband (because it's usually the husband) leaves at age 40 with his immediate 22 year pension.  Gets divorced, and 38 year old wife is awarded a PSO. Husband continues to receive his reduced pension, but normal payment date for the wife would be her SPA, 30 years in the future.
.

TBagpuss

Silvertabby said:

Brie said:

Retireinten said:

If the report is insisted upon can you not request this is paid for fully by the person requesting the report, ie your wife? Or at the very least the report costs are split 50/50. This is primarily in her interest afterall. 

Why is it only the wife's interest to ensure she gets a fair split of assets?  

@Silvertabby
Regardless of when you started to draw your pension, your wife won't be able to access her part before SPA  unless she takes a reduction for early payment.  Complicated?  You bet !  Far simpler to get the CETV valuation and use that as an offset against the DC.

I disagree - why would she have to wait til SPA?  I would assume she would be able to access it at the normal retirement age - which may be 60 or 65 or something else according to the T&Cs.  But I do agree it's complicated and perhaps if there are other assets the transfer value at an agreed date might be used as something on the husband's side of the balance sheet which is matched by an equal valued something on the wife's side (bank account, property etc)

It depends on the scheme rules, but I would expect that any entitlement to an early NRA would only apply to the original pensioner, and not the (new member) pension credit member, for whom normal retirement date would be SPA.  That's certainly the case in public sector pensions, but I'm happy to stand corrected if any private sector schemes do it differently.

An extreme example would be in the case of the Armed Forces pension:  
Husband (because it's usually the husband) leaves at age 40 with his immediate 22 year pension.  Gets divorced, and 38 year old wife is awarded a PSO. Husband continues to receive his reduced pension, but normal payment date for the wife would be her SPA, 30 years in the future.
.

For most pensions, it is possible to draw them from the age of 55, but obviosuly the wearlier you start taking the payment, the lower your annual pension will be. The difference with Army pensions is that in some cases they can be drawn before 55 - same with some other specilist pensions such as pesnions for professional sportspeople or professional dancers, where retirement (form professional / top level performace) is typically lower than in more conventional jobs. 

Most public service pensions can be taken from 55 and that applies both to the original scheme member and to anyone getting a pension as a result of a PSO.

However, for the purpose of pension sharing reports because the aimis to assess what is fair, it's normal to spcify conditions such as ssuming that the pension is taken byboth parties when they reach a specific age / SRA . THWat they *actually* do once the order has been made is up to them . 

Silvertabby

TBagpuss said:

Silvertabby said:

Brie said:

Retireinten said:

If the report is insisted upon can you not request this is paid for fully by the person requesting the report, ie your wife? Or at the very least the report costs are split 50/50. This is primarily in her interest afterall. 

Why is it only the wife's interest to ensure she gets a fair split of assets?  

@Silvertabby
Regardless of when you started to draw your pension, your wife won't be able to access her part before SPA  unless she takes a reduction for early payment.  Complicated?  You bet !  Far simpler to get the CETV valuation and use that as an offset against the DC.

I disagree - why would she have to wait til SPA?  I would assume she would be able to access it at the normal retirement age - which may be 60 or 65 or something else according to the T&Cs.  But I do agree it's complicated and perhaps if there are other assets the transfer value at an agreed date might be used as something on the husband's side of the balance sheet which is matched by an equal valued something on the wife's side (bank account, property etc)

It depends on the scheme rules, but I would expect that any entitlement to an early NRA would only apply to the original pensioner, and not the (new member) pension credit member, for whom normal retirement date would be SPA.  That's certainly the case in public sector pensions, but I'm happy to stand corrected if any private sector schemes do it differently.

An extreme example would be in the case of the Armed Forces pension:  
Husband (because it's usually the husband) leaves at age 40 with his immediate 22 year pension.  Gets divorced, and 38 year old wife is awarded a PSO. Husband continues to receive his reduced pension, but normal payment date for the wife would be her SPA, 30 years in the future.
.

For most pensions, it is possible to draw them from the age of 55, but obviosuly the wearlier you start taking the payment, the lower your annual pension will be. The difference with Army pensions is that in some cases they can be drawn before 55 - same with some other specilist pensions such as pesnions for professional sportspeople or professional dancers, where retirement (form professional / top level performace) is typically lower than in more conventional jobs. 

Most public service pensions can be taken from 55 and that applies both to the original scheme member and to anyone getting a pension as a result of a PSO.

However, for the purpose of pension sharing reports because the aimis to assess what is fair, it's normal to spcify conditions such as ssuming that the pension is taken byboth parties when they reach a specific age / SRA . THWat they *actually* do once the order has been made is up to them . 

Yes, I know - that's why I said : Regardless of when you started to draw your pension, your wife won't be able to access her part before SPA  unless she takes a reduction for early payment.

Taking the PSO from (currently) age 55 will be subject to a reduction of at least 50% for early payment.  I suspect that a lot of divorce solicitors just don't have the pensions knowledge to be able to factor this in.

Gsea

Thanks all,

Great sharing of information and just goes to show how complicated the process is.
My service pension came into payment at aged 60 and the CETV is similar to that of one of the DC pensions. Due to the complexity of the AFP pension, and possibly of her share not coming into payment until SPA, offsetting one against the other might be an option she would consider. Would the pension report highlight this or is this something that has to be requested in advance.

TIA!

Silvertabby

Gsea said:

Thanks all,

Great sharing of information and just goes to show how complicated the process is.
My service pension came into payment at aged 60 and the CETV is similar to that of one of the DC pensions. Due to the complexity of the AFP pension, and possibly of her share not coming into payment until SPA, offsetting one against the other might be an option she would consider. Would the pension report highlight this or is this something that has to be requested in advance.

TIA!

Offsetting is something you will discuss with your solicitor(s) once you have all the facts and figures to hand.

Don't know if it helps, but of the many divorce CETVs I produced during my 20 years as a LGPS administrator, I would say that little more than10% actually made it to PSO stage.  I can only assume that the rest were offset, in some fashion.