Keyless car security Kia Niro

murfy92

Hi,

My Kia Niro (First Edition) 67 plate car got stolen from outside my home at 10.30pm last week.
My car had a keyless entry system and a push button ignition.

Both my keys were stored in a faraday pouch which was meant to stop wireless key from emitting signals to the car which should supposedly prevent relay attacks where thieves intercept the signal and use the codes to clone a remote key. I tested the pouches thoroughly and they did work even when very close to the car which makes me think the thieves have another way.

The theft was caught on CCTV and it showed the thief stand near the car for around 2 minutes, he looked like he had a device/phone he was using to get into the car. Within minutes he was able to unlock the car and drive off. The alarm didn't go off, doors unlocked and immobiliser without the real key.

I've sent emails to KIA customer services questioning the lack of security and the ease to which the thief gained access. I'm also looking to purchase the same car again as I really liked the drive and economy but wanted to find out from Kia if there is anything that can be done to prevent such a theft (the thieves must have been local and targeted my car and so they'll no doubt try again if I get the same car again).

The kia customer service representative then said I should contact Thatcham https://www.thatcham.org/ (as the anti-theft systems for Kia vehicles are provided by them) and the dealership where I purchased the car from (Kia Snows in Guildford).

I phoned the dealership and the after sales manager said Kia head office should be advising on this. He did say that he personally places his keys in a metal tin well away from the car.

I emailed Thatcham and they said they would not be able to advise and directed me back to Kia. They said some some manufacturers now offer a vehicle key with an inbuilt movement sensor, that when it has been stationary for a period of time the key would not respond to any surrounding signals transmitted. Whilst you had taken significant measures to prevent such theft, additional deterrents may be found in the use of mechanical steering locks, alarm/immobiliser upgrades or even vehicle tracking that provide theft alerts.

I have gone back to Kia but no response. 

I don't know where to go now and whether I should purchase the same car again. Kia have not been very helpful at all. 

Petriix

Those cheap Faraday pouches are not very reliable. While they may have originally worked, if there's any detectable signal then it can be amplified to steal the car.

There are plenty of design choices which could be employed to eliminate this risk of theft. Many other cars have workarounds like using a separate signal for the unlocking and starting procedures or simply shutting the signal off.

I would personally recommend getting a tin with a tight fitting lid and lining it with layers of cardboard and tinfoil (including the underside of the lid). Test it regularly both outside and inside the car. Unfortunately the horse has bolted this time, but hopefully you have decent insurance.

Mr.Generous

Petriix said:

Those cheap Faraday pouches are not very reliable. While they may have originally worked, if there's any detectable signal then it can be amplified to steal the car.

There are plenty of design choices which could be employed to eliminate this risk of theft. Many other cars have workarounds like using a separate signal for the unlocking and starting procedures or simply shutting the signal off.

I would personally recommend getting a tin with a tight fitting lid and lining it with layers of cardboard and tinfoil (including the underside of the lid). Test it regularly both outside and inside the car. Unfortunately the horse has bolted this time, but hopefully you have decent insurance.

I'm trying to understand how much more convienient this keyless start and entry is, if a new car could be ordered without it who would go for the old button push remote then insert a key rather than this?

It's either that or back to the 80's with a stoplock / autolock / crooklock thing.

On hot hatches in the 80's we used to fit a manual cut out switch by running a wire from the +ve lead on the ignition coil to a hidden switch somewhere you could reach from the drivers seat. Any modern equivelent component you could wire to now? Maybe the fuel pump? Someone will know, an auto electrician would be able to sort it for a few £, pretty much guarantee it wouldn't be stolen then, it just wouldn't start.

facade

Whatever you replace it with, invest in a disklok, this is a metal cover that locks over the steering wheel, and makes it slightly more difficult to steal.

Most thieves are opportunists who drive around (in a previously stolen car- the local facebook will have film of them and the reg number of the car, but there are no Police so they won't be caught) until they find the make of car they are equipped to steal, then open it and drive off. They lack the skills to defeat simple mechanical locks- if they can't smash them in a few seconds they give up. When they spot the disklok they will give up and cruise onto the next house.

The are some disadvantages of a disklok though, they are heavy and difficult to store (and cost about 3 times what they are actually worth) you also need to buy an eBay steering wheel cosy to protect your faux leather wheel rim, I hate to think what happens in the event of a roll-over when the disklok flies through the cabin.

murfy92

Kia aren't willing to do anything, unable to even offer customers advice to make their car more secure.

Surely, they are best-placed to advise but I guess they don't want to be seen as accepting that their car security is inadequate.

All keyless car owners should do the following in my opinion, from what I've researched so far:

1. Turn off the keyless wireless signal if possible.
   
   
2. Use a Thatcham approved steering lock, at least overnight. https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/product-group-tests/95031/best-steering-wheel-locks-2021
   
   
3. Ask the car manufacturer dealership if they provide keys with in-built movement sensor. If the car has been stationary for a period of time the key would not respond to any surrounding signals transmitted.
   
   
4. Have an after-market aftermarket CAN bus immobiliser such as the Autowatch Ghost II fitted by a TASSA approved fitter.
   
   This will add a layer of protection even if a thief gains access to the car. It uses the buttons in your vehicle such as those on the steering wheel, door panels or centre console, to allow you to make a unique, changeable, disarm sequence (like a PIN code) that must first be entered before you can drive your car. 
   
   
5. Install a kill switch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3Oshy9FOaA&t=113s
   
   
6. (not sure about this) order a 3rd key for the car. Some manufacturers automatically block a fourth remote from being programmed to operate the car.
   
   
7. (not sure about this) faraday pouches, although they can't be relied on the signal may leak out from the pouch opening and this is then amplified to steal the car.
   

Grumpy_chap

Keyless Entry and Start (KESSY) really is the daftest improvement made to cars ever, yet it is becoming more and more common.  These systems should be able to be disabled but they are not.

It is almost as though the car manufacturers are in cahoots with the after-market accessory companies and as virtually everything is now built in the car as standard so no aftermarket things are required, the KESSY was introduced to create a market for crook-locks now that all the original crook-looks were thrown away.

[Deleted User]

I personally love keyless, the benefits are I guess somewhat situation dependent but for me just being able to touch a button the car door or the boot to open while the key is stuck in a bag or I am carrying things is great, ditto the push button start.

That said, I use a pouch (tested no signal through it) and have an approved steering wheel lock as we had the odd theft on our road, whether anyone would want to steal an 8 year old diesel is debatable however

Money_Grabber13579

I don’t think I would buy a car that had keyless entry unless it could be disabled. I’ve no problem with the push button start without keyless entry (it’s what I have at the moment) as without unlocking the car, they won’t be able to start it but keyless entry really seems like a stupid idea.

it’s pretty much the equivalent of leaving your car unlocked and the keys inside, particularly if you are nearby (such as at your house).

Robbo66

murfy92 said:

                               
Both my keys were stored in a faraday pouch which was meant to stop wireless key from emitting signals to the car which should supposedly prevent relay attacks where thieves intercept the signal and use the codes to clone a remote key. I tested the pouches thoroughly and they did work even when very close to the car which makes me think the thieves have another way.

The theft was caught on CCTV and it showed the thief stand near the car for around 2 minutes, he looked like he had a device/phone he was using to get into the car. Within minutes he was able to unlock the car and drive off. The alarm didn't go off, doors unlocked and immobiliser without the real key.

The car thief could have cloned the car/key signal when you were at the supermaket or work, put a small tracker on the car and then just used google maps to find the car. 

Jenni_D

Money_Grabber13579 said:

I don’t think I would buy a car that had keyless entry unless it could be disabled. I’ve no problem with the push button start without keyless entry (it’s what I have at the moment) as without unlocking the car, they won’t be able to start it but keyless entry really seems like a stupid idea.

I remember driving a Passat several years ago that had a push button start. However it also required the key fob to be pushed into a receptacle on the dash - so there was both a wireless and a mechanical interface to allow the car to start.

These days the manufacturers are moving to having no keys at all, and doing everything via an app on your phone.

[Deleted User]

Money_Grabber13579 said:

I don’t think I would buy a car that had keyless entry unless it could be disabled. I’ve no problem with the push button start without keyless entry (it’s what I have at the moment) as without unlocking the car, they won’t be able to start it but keyless entry really seems like a stupid idea.

it’s pretty much the equivalent of leaving your car unlocked and the keys inside, particularly if you are nearby (such as at your house).

It's not remotely equivalent to that. To flip it around, with a normal key / remote sensor, if you forgot to lock it then the thief stole it the same as you leaving the key inside. At least with keyless when I walk away, the car automatically locks without touching the button