Refund but paid

Alderbank

As popadom says, PayPal credit started life as Bill Me Later. The parent company PayPal has rebranded it as Paypal credit, rather confusingly in my opinion.
It is separate from the normal PayPal account and can be used even if you do not have a PayPal account. However PayPal say that for anti-money laundering reasons, any refund from PayPal credit can only be made to a PayPal account or authorised bank account. 
I suspect this is why they have not refunded. To get a refund the OP would have to open a PayPal account or have his current bank account authorised.
I don't see why the merchant can't be paid again from PayPal credit though. Possibly because the system won't let them put the same invoice through twice?

popadom

Alderbank said:

As popadom says, PayPal credit started life as Bill Me Later. The parent company PayPal has rebranded it as Paypal credit, rather confusingly in my opinion.
It is separate from the normal PayPal account and can be used even if you do not have a PayPal account. However PayPal say that for anti-money laundering reasons, any refund from PayPal credit can only be made to a PayPal account or authorised bank account. 
I suspect this is why they have not refunded. To get a refund the OP would have to open a PayPal account or have his current bank account authorised.
I don't see why the merchant can't be paid again from PayPal credit though. Possibly because the system won't let them put the same invoice through twice?

I have asked PayPal just to reverse the credit transaction but they haven’t given a reason why they can’t. I don’t know if the system can’t do it or they just won’t. 

unholyangel

popadom said:

unholyangel said:

popadom said:

pinkshoes said:

In short.

- OP bought table and chairs due to be delivered on a Friday
- Seller stated table would arrive Friday but chairs not until Tuesday.
- Seller then said on Tuesday that chairs might arrive Wednesday.
- OP cancels the chair order on Wednesday morning as there had been no delivery notice, and gets a refund from Paypal (for both??) Table arrived on Friday as planned. Chairs did not. I then had to do a Paypal claim and it was found in my favour for the cost of the chairs. I was refunded via Paypal to my Paypal credit account.
- attempted delivery of chairs Wednesday afternoon but OP was out.
- OP goes on holiday for a week and chairs are delivered.
- Seller does not want PayPal payment. OP seems to think they don't have to pay for them.
- When I got back from holiday, I paid for the chairs on my credit card as the company wouldn't accept Paypal(even though it was the original method). This was back in April. I considered the issue finished. I got the chairs. They got payment.
- Yesterday, the company refunded me via Paypal into my PayPal credit account. This was not requested by me or Paypal.
- Company now demanded I pay them again via credit card. I do not have the money to pay by credit or debit card. Paypal haven't been clear on why the company can't be refunded via the credit account.  I use Paypal credit as I can pay £30 a month of the items. I cannot afford to send money from my credit card as I am close to its limit. 
-I did not expect to have this refund and pay again. Company refuse to see it is their issue and will not take payment by PayPal credit again.
@popadom - have you paid for both the table and chairs? If not, then pay, as you have set them up and are using them. If you have already paid, then there is no issue.

I don't get why this is even an issue. 

See corrections- I hope that clears it up. 

So you've been refunded through PayPal twice, and paid by credit card once (as it stands now, not what has gone on back and forth)?

In other words, they've refunded the payment PayPal had already reversed? 

Have you told them you're unable to pay unless PayPal credit is used? 

Yes, that is how it stands.  And yes, they have refunded the payment PayPal already reversed. No one seems to know why they did it- the company won't tell me. 
I have told them this and they said they'd remove goods if I dont pay via credit/debit. But I hadn't expected this to happen so dont have the funds. I can pay again with Paypal credit but they refuse. 

Them reversing the payment doesn't reverse the contract. So they can't take back goods they already agreed to sell you. Assuming it was an outright sale and they're not on hire purchase ofc. 

But what I would ask is have you actually been refunded? To explain, I'd have expected your PayPal credit to look something like -£200 for the purchase, +£200 when PayPal cancelled but what happened when the company also reversed it? Can you have a credit balance on PayPal credit? Is there a credit balance on your PayPal credit? 

 

popadom

@unholyangel
So the original balance was £200ish ( I can’t remember the exact amount). It’s now £60ish due to the refund. 

PayPal won’t reverse it and the company will only accept a credit/debit card. As I said before, if it had been sent to a debit/PayPal balance, I could easy refund. But as I wasn’t expecting to pay £139 cash, I can’t just pay via credit card/debit card. The company won’t let me pay by PayPal credit again either.  

unholyangel

popadom said:

@unholyangel
So the original balance was £200ish ( I can’t remember the exact amount). It’s now £60ish due to the refund. 

PayPal won’t reverse it and the company will only accept a credit/debit card. As I said before, if it had been sent to a debit/PayPal balance, I could easy refund. But as I wasn’t expecting to pay £139 cash, I can’t just pay via credit card/debit card. The company won’t let me pay by PayPal credit again either.  

What I'm wondering is if their PayPal has been suspended. It would explain both their refusal to take via PayPal credit and PayPal refusal to reverse it. 

The issue here is the double "refund". Technically one of them isn't a refund but an incorrect credit sent. A bit like someone sending money to you by mistake and your bank account being overdrawn. Yes it needs to be paid, but you shouldn't be in a worse off position for their mistake. 

How long would you have taken to clear it from PayPal? Would you have paid any interest to PayPal? I'm thinking perhaps offer them those weekly/monthly payments plus interest (if you would've paid it to paypal) and highlight the above, that you contacted them to pay after their mistake delivering what had been cancelled and that you're not refusing to pay, you're just asking not to be any worse off than you would have been had they not made a mistake in refunding.

Tbh, I'd offer the repayments each and every week/month even if they initially refuse (ideally actually send it via bank transfer or cheque) and keep a record of each attempt. Won't look good for them if they do try to take it to court. Especially because you'd hopefully have repaid in full before it ever got that far. 


 

sheramber

Unfortunately, that still leaves the OP out of pocket and with a credit sitting in his Paypal Credit account.

popadom

@unholyangel
That’s the thing; I know it needs to be repaid , and I’m happy to do so. But I just can’t be put in a worse situation because of their error. 

I was paying about £30 per month so about five months. I think the interest is calculated in the repayment costs. 

I don’t have their bank details but I could try to send a cheque. 

They are a very difficult company who can’t see that it isn’t me refusing to pay, but that I won’t go into more debt to do so. 

Alderbank

popadom said:

They are a very difficult company who can’t see that it isn’t me refusing to pay, but that I won’t go into more debt to do so. 

...it isn't me refusing to pay...

Yes it is.
You have said you will only pay via the company formerly known as Bill me Later, even though they refuse to do so. It is no different from saying that you will only pay in Mongolian tögrög. In English law the seller chooses the form of payment, not the buyer.

I won’t go into more debt to do so. 

But it was your choice to buy through Bill me Later rather than pay upfront. That is the very essence of going into debt. You are still insisting on paying through Bill me Later.

Just take unholyangel's good advice and pay it off at £30 a month. Pragmatically they have no no real option but to accept.

unholyangel

sheramber said:

Unfortunately, that still leaves the OP out of pocket and with a credit sitting in his Paypal Credit account.

How so? The OP said prior to the company refunding, the PP credit balance was £200, and £60 after. However, as the chairs were already reversed by PayPal, it would seem the £200 is for the table or other borrowing. 

That £139 being credited earlier than it would have under OPs intended repayment time looks to have saved the OP interest. 

So I don't see how offering the company what it would have cost the OP if paid by PP credit as intended would leave the OP worse off. 

sheramber

Because the refunded money is sitting in PayPal CRedit and he can’t access it. He has find another lot of money to pay the company direct. So he is out of pocket by the money sitting in PayPal Credit.