Are tradesmen really this unprofessional?

Section62

diystarter7 said:

chefman99 said:

FaceHead said:

You need to stop thinking of this person as your employee. You're behaving like a call center manager being frustrated that an 18 year old is swanning in at 9.30. 

They are a contractor providing you an output - not a number of hours of work, but a bathroom. Whether they turn up at 8 or 9.30 and leave at 2pm or 6pm really doesn't matter. The questions you need to be asking aren't 'when will you be here today' but 'when will the job be done'. Focus on output, not input. 

They are probably finding the micro-management frustrating, being asked to justify where there are between 8 and 9.30 when in reality it's not your concern. I realise that the micro-management is a response to the job taking longer than it should, but try to agree with them when it'll be done, and then give them the freedom to make that happen how they like. If the agreement is broken repeatedly, then you can think about replacing them. 

I agree about focussing on the output. However if you’ve told someone that you’ll turn up at a time on a day to continue with work that isn’t complete then out of professional courtesy you turn up. I also work and I’m working around the times I’m expecting him to be here. If he’s running late or can only be here in the afternoon then tell me so that I can work around it accordingly. 

 In today’s case it’s not about being an hour late. It’s about not turning up for at least half the day when he told me he’d be here from first thing in the morning. How can my job progress if he simply doesn’t put in the work?

Exactly that  and anyone not understanding that is incredible.  sadly it is a case of one of the scenarios I posted her, IE false promises.

Sadly you are stuck with this.... I won't say what I really feel.

It's time to have another word IMO. Just be aware of more empty words or worse as I've met builders like that and the best thing I did was chuck him out. This was at my son's place. I found the builder for him via net and recommended him as our son is a lot busier than me. Our son is very diplomatic but there only so much diplomacy you can give/take.  That bloke started making threats I want my money, it was hard, it was scary as you can't often win in a situatio like that so i told my son to start recording him.  We told him we'd give him to xx to basically p off. It was more than what we wanted to do but we just wanted rid of the parasite, a useless parasite. He'd turn up late or not did not answer his phone but at the start he was good. He moaned about the marble tiles being too diffuclt to cut where it all started and my son told him that he's clearly told him as not everyone could do marble tiles. Then the bloke would f and blind as he spoke to son, not directed at him but there was no need for it and my son told not in his home and he did not take that well. Then there was the smoking right outside the window told him off for that in a polite way but he did not take it well

At times, it seems very hard but the best thing to do is rid of this so-called builder.

The new builder was was a very decent chap, his work was 8/9 ot of 10 but he made up for it being nice, polite, on time and listening to us and I guess doing his best which then mean we would score him 10/10.

Any threats, nasty language, tell him directly without hesitation, 'please stop' and if he does not then tell him you'd get the police and do call them if you feel under threat.

IMO, a genuine person if late would ring straight away. Thats what I did on the odd ocassion where i was late for ann appointment due to unusally heavy traffice EG accident/police incident/etc/etc.

@chefman99 You may have worked it out already, but if not, you'd probably be best served by not paying very much attention to this poster's 'advice'.

Getting "rid of" the trader at this point in your project could land you with more complicated issues to resolve.

There is also still no sign whatsoever that you need to involve the police, or refer to them in your discussions with the builder.  Doing so could be counterproductive, unless the situation dramatically changes.

diystarter7

Section62 said:

diystarter7 said:

chefman99 said:

FaceHead said:

You need to stop thinking of this person as your employee. You're behaving like a call center manager being frustrated that an 18 year old is swanning in at 9.30. 

They are a contractor providing you an output - not a number of hours of work, but a bathroom. Whether they turn up at 8 or 9.30 and leave at 2pm or 6pm really doesn't matter. The questions you need to be asking aren't 'when will you be here today' but 'when will the job be done'. Focus on output, not input. 

They are probably finding the micro-management frustrating, being asked to justify where there are between 8 and 9.30 when in reality it's not your concern. I realise that the micro-management is a response to the job taking longer than it should, but try to agree with them when it'll be done, and then give them the freedom to make that happen how they like. If the agreement is broken repeatedly, then you can think about replacing them. 

I agree about focussing on the output. However if you’ve told someone that you’ll turn up at a time on a day to continue with work that isn’t complete then out of professional courtesy you turn up. I also work and I’m working around the times I’m expecting him to be here. If he’s running late or can only be here in the afternoon then tell me so that I can work around it accordingly. 

 In today’s case it’s not about being an hour late. It’s about not turning up for at least half the day when he told me he’d be here from first thing in the morning. How can my job progress if he simply doesn’t put in the work?

Exactly that  and anyone not understanding that is incredible.  sadly it is a case of one of the scenarios I posted her, IE false promises.

Sadly you are stuck with this.... I won't say what I really feel.

It's time to have another word IMO. Just be aware of more empty words or worse as I've met builders like that and the best thing I did was chuck him out. This was at my son's place. I found the builder for him via net and recommended him as our son is a lot busier than me. Our son is very diplomatic but there only so much diplomacy you can give/take.  That bloke started making threats I want my money, it was hard, it was scary as you can't often win in a situatio like that so i told my son to start recording him.  We told him we'd give him to xx to basically p off. It was more than what we wanted to do but we just wanted rid of the parasite, a useless parasite. He'd turn up late or not did not answer his phone but at the start he was good. He moaned about the marble tiles being too diffuclt to cut where it all started and my son told him that he's clearly told him as not everyone could do marble tiles. Then the bloke would f and blind as he spoke to son, not directed at him but there was no need for it and my son told not in his home and he did not take that well. Then there was the smoking right outside the window told him off for that in a polite way but he did not take it well

At times, it seems very hard but the best thing to do is rid of this so-called builder.

The new builder was was a very decent chap, his work was 8/9 ot of 10 but he made up for it being nice, polite, on time and listening to us and I guess doing his best which then mean we would score him 10/10.

Any threats, nasty language, tell him directly without hesitation, 'please stop' and if he does not then tell him you'd get the police and do call them if you feel under threat.

IMO, a genuine person if late would ring straight away. Thats what I did on the odd ocassion where i was late for ann appointment due to unusally heavy traffice EG accident/police incident/etc/etc.

@chefman99 You may have worked it out already, but if not, you'd probably be best served by not paying very much attention to this poster's 'advice'.

Getting "rid of" the trader at this point in your project could land you with more complicated issues to resolve.

There is also still no sign whatsoever that you need to involve the police, or refer to them in your discussions with the builder.  Doing so could be counterproductive, unless the situation dramatically changes.

@chefman99
Unlike the poster in question citing you to "ignore ."  what I have said, I will not tell you anything of the kind.

 I've taken time and effort to post my, my familys personal experiences and the experiences of people I know. It is hard to tell a builder to go once they have started work but as per my posts if they are rude/nasty/etc as stated clearly in my posts, get rid, call the police if you feel under threat. If you recall from one of my posts, my builder asked me something and then exploded and it was scary and in the end I had to telll him I think I'd call the cops to make him stop. Incredbly I felt guilty afterwards as though I'd done something wrong but I had not and my wife confirmed this. Som people make you feel as though you are wrong but from what you have posted, you are asking for no favours but for the builder to complete works as agreed without taking the p.

I don't need to tell anyone what to do as IMO you have the capacity to make a decision you want to.

I really hope it works out but from what I've read, this builder is hard to pin down on their obligations/promises.

Good luck.

Section62

diystarter7 said:

Section62 said:

diystarter7 said:

chefman99 You may have worked it out already, but if not, you'd probably be best served by not paying very much attention to this poster's 'advice'.

Getting "rid of" the trader at this point in your project could land you with more complicated issues to resolve.

There is also still no sign whatsoever that you need to involve the police, or refer to them in your discussions with the builder.  Doing so could be counterproductive, unless the situation dramatically changes.

@chefman99
Unlike the poster in question citing you to "ignore ."  what I have said, I will not tell you anything of the kind.

At no point did I use the word "ignore".

People who have worked in the industry and/or use contractors on a regular basis are giving the OP broadly similar advice.  Your advice represents an outlier, quite some distance from that of people with significant experience in this field.  People need to be aware of that, and take it into account when deciding what to do.

diystarter7 said:

I've taken time and effort to post my, my familys personal experiences and the experiences of people I know. It is hard to tell a builder to go once they have started work but as per my posts if they are rude/nasty/etc as stated clearly in my posts, get rid, call the police if you feel under threat. If you recall from one of my posts, my builder asked me something and then exploded and it was scary and in the end I had to telll him I think I'd call the cops to make him stop. Incredbly I felt guilty afterwards as though I'd done something wrong but I had not and my wife confirmed this. Som people make you feel as though you are wrong but from what you have posted, you are asking for no favours but for the builder to complete works as agreed without taking the p.

As above.  Your experiences depart significantly from 'norms' in the industry.  If that is what has happened to you then as advice to someone dealing with a completely different builder it needs to be set in the context of how/why your experieces depart from the 'norms' so often.  As an engineer, I would be looking for common factors to help to understand this apparently anomalous situation.

There is still no indication whatsover that police involvement is needed in the OP's case.

stuart45

Wonder if the plumber's turned up yet? Might be worried The Sweeney are waiting for him.

chefman99

Final update. Spoke about the lack of progress and agreed to call it quits at this point (only one wall tiled in the past 2 weeks and no communication at all). He was very sincere about it and we agreed that we could no longer work in this manner. He was clearly overstretched by taking too much work on. He’s picked up all his tools and wished each other good luck. 

Section62

chefman99 said:

Final update. Spoke about the lack of progress and agreed to call it quits at this point (only one wall tiled in the past 2 weeks and no communication at all). He was very sincere about it and we agreed that we could no longer work in this manner. He was clearly overstretched by taking too much work on. He’s picked up all his tools and wished each other good luck. 

Although it is unfortunate he's let you down with the job, it is good that you've finally managed to sort things out in a professional and amicable manner.

This is representative of the experiences most people have with construction/building traders when problems arise - with absolutely no need to "call the cops" (or TSG).

Hope you manage to find another trader soon and get the job completed to your satisfaction.