Are tradesmen really this unprofessional?

chefman99

Quick update on the state of play. 1hr 20 late. Not answering my texts or phone calls. Then tells me he’s picking up materials on his way. Is it the norm for tradesmen to be buying materials at 0930 before getting to the job? I always thought the reason trades merchants were open at 7/730 was to allow tradesmen to pick up materials for the day before starting work at 8/9am?

Section62

chefman99 said:

Quick update on the state of play. 1hr 20 late. Not answering my texts or phone calls. Then tells me he’s picking up materials on his way. Is it the norm for tradesmen to be buying materials at 0930 before getting to the job? I always thought the reason trades merchants were open at 7/730 was to allow tradesmen to pick up materials for the day before starting work at 8/9am?

There aren't any rules on when tradespeople buy their materials.  Some prefer to stock up on their way home at the end of the day.

All that matters is what time you agreed that the contractor would get to yours to start work, and whether any agreed time is contractually enforceable.

chefman99

Section62 said:

chefman99 said:

Quick update on the state of play. 1hr 20 late. Not answering my texts or phone calls. Then tells me he’s picking up materials on his way. Is it the norm for tradesmen to be buying materials at 0930 before getting to the job? I always thought the reason trades merchants were open at 7/730 was to allow tradesmen to pick up materials for the day before starting work at 8/9am?

There aren't any rules on when tradespeople buy their materials.  Some prefer to stock up on their way home at the end of the day.

All that matters is what time you agreed that the contractor would get to yours to start work, and whether any agreed time is contractually enforceable.

Thanks. We’d agreed on an 0830 start today. It’s 10:10 and he’s still buying materials.

stuart45

The problem started when they put coffee machines in the merchants.

Section62

chefman99 said:

Section62 said:

chefman99 said:

Quick update on the state of play. 1hr 20 late. Not answering my texts or phone calls. Then tells me he’s picking up materials on his way. Is it the norm for tradesmen to be buying materials at 0930 before getting to the job? I always thought the reason trades merchants were open at 7/730 was to allow tradesmen to pick up materials for the day before starting work at 8/9am?

There aren't any rules on when tradespeople buy their materials.  Some prefer to stock up on their way home at the end of the day.

All that matters is what time you agreed that the contractor would get to yours to start work, and whether any agreed time is contractually enforceable.

Thanks. We’d agreed on an 0830 start today. It’s 10:10 and he’s still buying materials.

"Start" as in he would be at your property ready to work at that time?

Have you had any discussions about you wanting the job completed by a specific date?

chefman99

Section62 said:

chefman99 said:

Section62 said:

chefman99 said:

Quick update on the state of play. 1hr 20 late. Not answering my texts or phone calls. Then tells me he’s picking up materials on his way. Is it the norm for tradesmen to be buying materials at 0930 before getting to the job? I always thought the reason trades merchants were open at 7/730 was to allow tradesmen to pick up materials for the day before starting work at 8/9am?

There aren't any rules on when tradespeople buy their materials.  Some prefer to stock up on their way home at the end of the day.

All that matters is what time you agreed that the contractor would get to yours to start work, and whether any agreed time is contractually enforceable.

Thanks. We’d agreed on an 0830 start today. It’s 10:10 and he’s still buying materials.

"Start" as in he would be at your property ready to work at that time?

Have you had any discussions about you wanting the job completed by a specific date?

Yes. As in he’d be at my property at 0830 ready to work. Still not here btw! 

I was hoping to have that discussion with him today in person (he seems to avoid anything contentious via phone or text). He originally said ‘about 2 weeks’ and we’re in the 6th week. My mistake originally for not getting anything more concrete than that from him but it’s the manner in which the time has slipped. 

I understand jobs can take longer than expected due to lack of materials or unforeseen issues. However the majority of this slip has been because he’s not been here consistently.

FaceHead

You need to stop thinking of this person as your employee. You're behaving like a call center manager being frustrated that an 18 year old is swanning in at 9.30. 

They are a contractor providing you an output - not a number of hours of work, but a bathroom. Whether they turn up at 8 or 9.30 and leave at 2pm or 6pm really doesn't matter. The questions you need to be asking aren't 'when will you be here today' but 'when will the job be done'. Focus on output, not input. 

They are probably finding the micro-management frustrating, being asked to justify where there are between 8 and 9.30 when in reality it's not your concern. I realise that the micro-management is a response to the job taking longer than it should, but try to agree with them when it'll be done, and then give them the freedom to make that happen how they like. If the agreement is broken repeatedly, then you can think about replacing them. 

chefman99

FaceHead said:

You need to stop thinking of this person as your employee. You're behaving like a call center manager being frustrated that an 18 year old is swanning in at 9.30. 

They are a contractor providing you an output - not a number of hours of work, but a bathroom. Whether they turn up at 8 or 9.30 and leave at 2pm or 6pm really doesn't matter. The questions you need to be asking aren't 'when will you be here today' but 'when will the job be done'. Focus on output, not input. 

They are probably finding the micro-management frustrating, being asked to justify where there are between 8 and 9.30 when in reality it's not your concern. I realise that the micro-management is a response to the job taking longer than it should, but try to agree with them when it'll be done, and then give them the freedom to make that happen how they like. If the agreement is broken repeatedly, then you can think about replacing them. 

I agree about focussing on the output. However if you’ve told someone that you’ll turn up at a time on a day to continue with work that isn’t complete then out of professional courtesy you turn up. I also work and I’m working around the times I’m expecting him to be here. If he’s running late or can only be here in the afternoon then tell me so that I can work around it accordingly. 

 In today’s case it’s not about being an hour late. It’s about not turning up for at least half the day when he told me he’d be here from first thing in the morning. How can my job progress if he simply doesn’t put in the work?

Section62

chefman99 said:

FaceHead said:

You need to stop thinking of this person as your employee. You're behaving like a call center manager being frustrated that an 18 year old is swanning in at 9.30. 

They are a contractor providing you an output - not a number of hours of work, but a bathroom. Whether they turn up at 8 or 9.30 and leave at 2pm or 6pm really doesn't matter. The questions you need to be asking aren't 'when will you be here today' but 'when will the job be done'. Focus on output, not input. 

They are probably finding the micro-management frustrating, being asked to justify where there are between 8 and 9.30 when in reality it's not your concern. I realise that the micro-management is a response to the job taking longer than it should, but try to agree with them when it'll be done, and then give them the freedom to make that happen how they like. If the agreement is broken repeatedly, then you can think about replacing them. 

I agree about focussing on the output. However if you’ve told someone that you’ll turn up at a time on a day to continue with work that isn’t complete then out of professional courtesy you turn up. I also work and I’m working around the times I’m expecting him to be here. If he’s running late or can only be here in the afternoon then tell me so that I can work around it accordingly. 

You need to be clear with him about two things -

Firstly, you need the job finished by 'x' date.  That date should be set to give him reasonable time to finish, but not so onerous that it is unreasonable (given no specific date was agreed previously).

Secondly, you need to explain that you are working too, and you need to make plans around the hours he's working.  If you agree with him that he'll arrive at 8:30 then (within reason) you need him to arrive then, so you'll then be able to start work at the time you are supposed to start.

This is where FaceHead's point about micromanaging comes in - don't set a time when you expect him to arrive, but make it clear the agreed time needs to be adhered to or it causes you problems.

By all means explain how your employer is really difficult and insists on you working continuously without breaks once you start, so you can't stop to let him in at random times etc etc. You get the picture?

diystarter7

chefman99 said:

FaceHead said:

You need to stop thinking of this person as your employee. You're behaving like a call center manager being frustrated that an 18 year old is swanning in at 9.30. 

They are a contractor providing you an output - not a number of hours of work, but a bathroom. Whether they turn up at 8 or 9.30 and leave at 2pm or 6pm really doesn't matter. The questions you need to be asking aren't 'when will you be here today' but 'when will the job be done'. Focus on output, not input. 

They are probably finding the micro-management frustrating, being asked to justify where there are between 8 and 9.30 when in reality it's not your concern. I realise that the micro-management is a response to the job taking longer than it should, but try to agree with them when it'll be done, and then give them the freedom to make that happen how they like. If the agreement is broken repeatedly, then you can think about replacing them. 

I agree about focussing on the output. However if you’ve told someone that you’ll turn up at a time on a day to continue with work that isn’t complete then out of professional courtesy you turn up. I also work and I’m working around the times I’m expecting him to be here. If he’s running late or can only be here in the afternoon then tell me so that I can work around it accordingly. 

 In today’s case it’s not about being an hour late. It’s about not turning up for at least half the day when he told me he’d be here from first thing in the morning. How can my job progress if he simply doesn’t put in the work?

Exactly that  and anyone not understanding that is incredible.  sadly it is a case of one of the scenarios I posted her, IE false promises.

Sadly you are stuck with this.... I won't say what I really feel.

It's time to have another word IMO. Just be aware of more empty words or worse as I've met builders like that and the best thing I did was chuck him out. This was at my son's place. I found the builder for him via net and recommended him as our son is a lot busier than me. Our son is very diplomatic but there only so much diplomacy you can give/take.  That bloke started making threats I want my money, it was hard, it was scary as you can't often win in a situatio like that so i told my son to start recording him.  We told him we'd give him to xx to basically p off. It was more than what we wanted to do but we just wanted rid of the parasite, a useless parasite. He'd turn up late or not did not answer his phone but at the start he was good. He moaned about the marble tiles being too diffuclt to cut where it all started and my son told him that he's clearly told him as not everyone could do marble tiles. Then the bloke would f and blind as he spoke to son, not directed at him but there was no need for it and my son told not in his home and he did not take that well. Then there was the smoking right outside the window told him off for that in a polite way but he did not take it well

At times, it seems very hard but the best thing to do is rid of this so-called builder.

The new builder was was a very decent chap, his work was 8/9 ot of 10 but he made up for it being nice, polite, on time and listening to us and I guess doing his best which then mean we would score him 10/10.

Any threats, nasty language, tell him directly without hesitation, 'please stop' and if he does not then tell him you'd get the police and do call them if you feel under threat.

IMO, a genuine person if late would ring straight away. Thats what I did on the odd ocassion where i was late for ann appointment due to unusally heavy traffice EG accident/police incident/etc/etc.