Money Moral Dilemma: Should I give my brother a better power tool after I broke his?

saver79

MSE_Kelvin said:

This week's MoneySaver who wants advice asks...

I borrowed my brother's power tool, which broke while I was using it. I went to buy a replacement, but the same model wasn't available, so I bought a more expensive one as I needed to finish the job. It was much easier to use, so I've decided to keep it. I've told my brother I'll buy him the original tool when it's available, or give him the cash equivalent, but he says I should give him the more expensive tool to compensate for the one I broke.

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Why don’t you just both share the tool you’ve already bought? Makes more sense than buying 2 of them..think of the planet! It all ends up in landfill, eventually..buying endless appliances is so pointless, when its something that only occasionally gets used.

Section62

saver79 said:

Why don’t you just both share the tool you’ve already bought? Makes more sense than buying 2 of them..think of the planet! It all ends up in landfill, eventually..buying endless appliances is so pointless, when its something that only occasionally gets used.

So instead of having two tools, the OP and the brother burn litres of fuel (or kWhs of electric) driving between their homes each time the other needs the tool?  It isn't clear that sharing a tool would be better environmentally than having one each.

Also, it is unlawful to put waste electrical equipment like power tools into landfill.  Power tools would only end up in landfill if the person disposing of them a) Ignored the rules and put the equipment in the refuse bin, and b) if the waste collection/disposal authority (/ies) don't treat collected waste to remove recylcable materials and c) the waste disposal authority still uses landfill to deal with their residual waste.  The odds of any one power tool ending up in landfill are fairly remote, rahter than it being a case of "all".

JayD

I despair of some brothers!

Do you really begrudge him the updated version of the tool he was willing to lend to you - and which you broke???

Now he is without one at all - while you sit hanging on to the replacement you bought because it was a tad more expensive - and an upgrade on the other one!!

For goodness sake, give him the flippin' new tool and maybe he will let you borrow it again if/when you need to!

Ringo90

The key there is "when available".  How long is that going to be, what is the brother expected to do in the meantime?

Obviously I was giving for granted that in the meanwhile they should share the tool, the same thing you suggested yourself.

Manufacturers usually have a policy of 'continuous product improvement' which invariably means replacing parts of the product with something cheaper (aka 'flimsier') in order to reduce costs.

Yes, but similarly there's a chance that the manufacturer has also improved some aspects of the product. Nevertheless, as I said, it's ok if he wants another more expensive model, what is not ok is to expect the brother to cover the whole cost of it. Imagine you accidentally broke my iPhone X, and I wanna take this chance to upgrade to the latest model iPhone 13. I would ask you to just contribute a sum equivalent to the value of my old iPhone X and then I would add the difference to be able to upgrade. My decision to upgrade is mine alone and not strictly necessary so it should not weigh on your finances.

Not comparable. Firstly it is a sibling, not a landlord. Secondly, the landlord is 'lending' you the chair as part of a commercial relationship in which it is expected that some wear and tear/damage will happen and the rent is priced accordingly, the OP was not hiring the tool from the brother. Thirdly, you imply the tool was old and cheap, but there is no evidence of that. Rather, the fact the OP suggests an equivalent model is still available is evidence to the contrary regarding age.

To be honest I don't know enough about tools to be able to say it might be 5, 10 or 20 years old. The point is that even though this is not renting, the idea is the same: old/used is not equivalent to new/mint condition. Unless we're talking vintage stuff or collecting, the more you own a product the less value it has, taking also into consideration factors such as warranty, availability of spare parts etc. Therefore, depending on the circumstances of the tool in question (which we don't know in detail), replacing the used the tool for a new one is most likely a generous offer.

Section62

Ringo90 said:

Manufacturers usually have a policy of 'continuous product improvement' which invariably means replacing parts of the product with something cheaper (aka 'flimsier') in order to reduce costs.

Yes, but similarly there's a chance that the manufacturer has also improved some aspects of the product. Nevertheless, as I said, it's ok if he wants another more expensive model, what is not ok is to expect the brother to cover the whole cost of it. Imagine you accidentally broke my iPhone X, and I wanna take this chance to upgrade to the latest model iPhone 13. I would ask you to just contribute a sum equivalent to the value of my old iPhone X and then I would add the difference to be able to upgrade. My decision to upgrade is mine alone and not strictly necessary so it should not weigh on your finances.

That's your personal choice.  You can't impose that on the OP's brother, nor can the OP.  Even the OP agrees the mimumum amount should be the replacement cost, not the value.

Without more information about the differences between the original tool and the model the OP purchased, it is impossible to say what kind of 'upgrade' it represents.

Ringo90 said:

Not comparable. Firstly it is a sibling, not a landlord. Secondly, the landlord is 'lending' you the chair as part of a commercial relationship in which it is expected that some wear and tear/damage will happen and the rent is priced accordingly, the OP was not hiring the tool from the brother. Thirdly, you imply the tool was old and cheap, but there is no evidence of that. Rather, the fact the OP suggests an equivalent model is still available is evidence to the contrary regarding age.

To be honest I don't know enough about tools to be able to say it might be 5, 10 or 20 years old. The point is that even though this is not renting, the idea is the same: old/used is not equivalent to new/mint condition. Unless we're talking vintage stuff or collecting, the more you own a product the less value it has, taking also into consideration factors such as warranty, availability of spare parts etc. Therefore, depending on the circumstances of the tool in question (which we don't know in detail), replacing the used the tool for a new one is most likely a generous offer.

We are talking about one sibling doing another sibling a favour by lending them a tool.  This isn't a commercial relationship where depreciation and wear and tear needs to be taken into account.  The borrower should be willing to return the favour by giving the lender betterment if that is the only way to reasonably deal with the situation in which the item loaned has been destroyed.

If I lost a book borrowed from my local library I would be asked to pay the cover price, not the cost of buying a dog-eared copy from an internet seller in China with three-months shipping.  The arrangements between people (/organisations) in the event of loss or damage will always vary by circumstances.  You would expect (at least morally) that an arrangement between siblings would be towards the more generous end of the scale.  Especially if future loans are expected/anticipated.

anotheruser

Give him the cash of what he paid (not what it's worth now).

GaleSF63

JayD said:

I despair of some brothers!

Do you really begrudge him the updated version of the tool he was willing to lend to you - and which you broke???

Now he is without one at all - while you sit hanging on to the replacement you bought because it was a tad more expensive - and an upgrade on the other one!!

For goodness sake, give him the flippin' new tool and maybe he will let you borrow it again if/when you need to!

Probably not!

thegrifter59

Justlookin_2 said:

He accepts the risk in lending the tool

You could lend yours and offer the cash for the lower amount. 

Utter Garbage, if I lend a tool then the risk is all on the person who borrowed it. Why should I, the lender,  be out of pocket due to your carelessness? I work to the principle, you break it you buy it, and if you don't agree to that then you won't be borrowing any tools ever from me. If you can't get a direct replacement then you need to replace it with the next model up.

DRP

Not really a dilemma. Brother needs to (pretty much immediately) needs to have the tool replaced. If there's not a similar / same model then obviously he shouldn't have his tool replaced by an inferior model!

These are the risks you take when you borrow someone's stuff!

jimpwarsop

"Its better to give than to lend".

Yeah, and it usually costs about the same.