Casual Work - Neighbour's Son

theoretica

Tucosalamanca said:

Wow, people can be so generous. I've got time served lads earning less money (and I've carefully researched market rates).
For light tasks (such as pressure washing) £60 a day is good money. I know 16/17yr olds moving aggregates for £70 per day.
The last 18yr old I took on was earning £45 cash in hand for doing demolition work (I don't approve but it's real world figures).
£150 per day puts them on £39,000 (£150x5x52). That's strong money for a skilled tradesperson in employment, ridiculous for an unskilled 16yr old.

True - but also one offs usually pay better per hour than longer or more regular employment.   To me, £275 or so a week, £80 for a single day or £15/20 for a single hour seem about comparable.  And good on anyone who could fill a working year with one-off single hour tasks!

Grumpy_chap

Well, I've been surprised by the number of people talking this task up as how skilled it can be and how much can go wrong.  I don't "get" it as it's a job I've done myself in the past and really not hard in any way - getting it done for me is "lazy" I guess, in the same way as I can clean my car but chose to get it cleaned for a tenner at the Supermarket.

I've also noted that those most talking up the skill required to do the job also seem to be the ones most saying to pay peanuts.  That does not seem consistent as, if the task is highly skilled, then the rate should be premium.

Anyway, rather than the discussion on "per hour", I took the advice to discuss a price for the job and he came back with £350.  So, that won't be happening - I'll clean the driveway myself.  I just need to check the correct grade of sand to sweep back in afterwards.

FreeBear

Grumpy_chap said:  I just need to check the correct grade of sand to sweep back in afterwards.

Kiln dried sand is the usual stuff - Some bags have a weedkiller mixed in but I have doubts about the effectiveness of it... Wait a few days for the blocks to dry out, then brush the sand in to the joints. You'll probably only need half a bag.

The other stuff that is sometimes used is a polymeric sand... But the stuff sets and doesn't allow water to drain away in the gaps between the blocks. Kinda defeats the purpose of having a permeable surface.

Bendy_House

Grumpy_chap said:

Well, I've been surprised by the number of people talking this task up as how skilled it can be and how much can go wrong.  I don't "get" it as it's a job I've done myself in the past and really not hard in any way - getting it done for me is "lazy" I guess, in the same way as I can clean my car but chose to get it cleaned for a tenner at the Supermarket.

I've also noted that those most talking up the skill required to do the job also seem to be the ones most saying to pay peanuts.  That does not seem consistent as, if the task is highly skilled, then the rate should be premium.

Anyway, rather than the discussion on "per hour", I took the advice to discuss a price for the job and he came back with £350.  So, that won't be happening - I'll clean the driveway myself.  I just need to check the correct grade of sand to sweep back in afterwards.

It's a shame it's turned out like that, as you were clearly hoping to do the lad a good turn, and reward him for his seeming growing maturity.

I wonder, tho', if the mooted hourly rates may have rose-tinted his eyes?! His quote of £350 was way ott. 

How long would/did this job take YOU to do in the past? A half-day? 4-ish hours? For a non tax payer, espec at 16, he shouldn't be expecting more than £10 ph. That may seem measly for a whole driveway clean - a total of around £50 for the job - but that is all it's actually worth. Another couple of hours to re-sand in a couple of (dry) days time, and we are still under £100 for the job. However, as a nice round figure, £100 seems 'ok' for this. And the sooner the lad realises what's a fair figure to quote, the sooner he'll stop being disappointed by the surely-inevitable rejections.

You are in Wales? A generally low-income area? Then double-lawdie.

I'm in Devon, and building prices - already strong - have gone stupid. 3 years ago, tho', we were lucky to find a super-skilled builder, and he charged only £18 ph. He was the bargain of the century.

Anything remotely over £10ph tax free for an unskilled 16 year old is just nuts. And even £10 is generous.

warwick2001

haha, £350 for max 10 hours work. So, £35 an hour, tax free....???

I need to start cleaning driveways

Spendless

Oh dear. I wonder if he was just a bit clueless as to how he should price the job. Years ago (1980s)  my friend went for a job as a hairdresser and the owner asked how much she wanted as wages, she replied £200 a week. At the end of the interview he offered her the job with the comment but I can't pay you £200 it will be half that. It was still a good wage, I was taking home £65  at the time. A couple of years on she'd laugh when re-counting the story and say that she just thought £200 was a desirable amount to be earning. His £350 price reminded me of it

My 19yo earns around £9 an hour in her summer job working as a performer in an  immersive  experience tourist attraction. Not exactly skilled work but not something everyone can walk into either. The rate is still good. Last year she worked for NMW. 

Grumpy_chap

Bendy_House said:

I wonder, tho', if the mooted hourly rates may have rose-tinted his eyes?

I had not mooted any hourly rates with the neighbour's son (unless he read this thread) - I was trying to get an understanding of what was reasonable before having the discussion then decided, based on the comments in this thread, to go with let him set a price.  That was when the thing got really silly and I called it off.

I don't live in Wales, but I think another contributor to the thread mentioned they do.  We are based in SW London.

Bendy_House said:

I'm in Devon, and building prices - already strong - have gone stupid. 3 years ago, tho', we were lucky to find a super-skilled builder, and he charged only £18 ph. He was the bargain of the century.

More than a bargain - he needs to know the value of his own service.  My Mum's gardener charges £25 per hour (which I think is steep) but I'd expect to pay more for a builder than a gardener.

warwick2001 said:

haha, £350 for max 10 hours work. So, £35 an hour, tax free....???

I need to start cleaning driveways

Except, at that rate, the work was not forthcoming...



I guess this whole exercise confirms the old adage to never mix business and leisure.

twopenny

The option here is that you could show him a new skill.
Though I'm guessing he won't be thinking that way with that price.
He really needs to know the right way to do things so he can confidently do it again. This could well be a great chance for him to aquire some skills.
Did you ask him where he got this price from? I'm guessing a 'mate'
Had a young apprentice here with a building firm. Totally clueless but unfortunately my neighbour, without asking me, offered him cash to repair a step and it collapsed under his ailing wife. 
Some teens think they know it all because they've seen someone do it.