direct debits going out early but dated correctly grrr!!

Mikeyorks

YorkshireBoy wrote: »

Conclusion: Yorkshire Bank do not carry out any further processing over the weekend, with the next processing taking place Monday night.

Thanks for that - and apologies I should really have tagged this (final bit) to my previous.

In which case the online view on Sat / Sun / BHol (with the exception of the 'available' figure) must be the Friday database position prior to the update? Is that right?

YorkshireBoy

Mikeyorks wrote: »

In which case the online view on Sat / Sun / BHol (with the exception of the 'available' figure) must be the Friday database position prior to the update? Is that right?

Yes. In order to 'see' the next working day's transaction details (on Sat/Sun/BH) I have to select the next working day (Mon/Tues/Wed) as the 'to' date in the filter box.

MarkyMarkD

Generalisations on this thread are rather dangerous.

Different banks deal with pending transactions like this in different ways.

But it doesn't affect the general rule that your account should be in credit by the funds required to meet an outgoing payment by the close of business the previous banking day - i.e. on FRIDAY to meet your MONDAY rental DD.

Whether it's reserved, by removing from the available balance, at close of play on Friday or not is irrelevant to be honest - it still is required to be there.

Banks that reserve the funds are in fact doing you a favour - stopping you going overdrawn without permission by spending money over the weekend which is required to meet Monday's DDs. If they didn't reserve the funds, you might end up with a bounced DD charge instead.

The "debits before credits" story is a red herring. As the funds for the debits are required to be there at close of previous banking day, getting a credit in on the SAME day is too late. It's therefore irrelevant which order the transactions are posted ON A PARTICULAR DAY.

Mikeyorks

dunstonh wrote: »

Saturday, Sunday and Monday are effectively all the same day. .

That used to be the case Dunstonh ... but I'm dubious it still is, as a number of the Banks now run their systems over the weekend. And, for those, the previously accurate notion that weekends don't exist - only really applies to the cheque clearing cycles.
My 'Saturday' view of my accounts reflects the general position after Fri night Batch runs. It includes incoming DC transactions and any credits and all carrying the Sat date. All transactions I create over the weekend carry the accurate transaction date - albeit these are mainly internal.

Which in turn creates the further question - that if a direct credit (such as salary / pension) has a specific target date of the Monday. Then somehow such a Bank must obviate that from the Friday Batch run (despite the file of credits being available) - and instead process it into the Batch run prior the next working day? But I'll not ask it - I'll just muse on it !!

MarkyMarkD

Why shouldn't a bank be able to process a batch run which includes both a run date and a value date? Doesn't seem particularly complex to me, Mike.

I can see the DDs about to hit my account a day before, always. So the DD run is always processed early - with the next day as the value date. Presumably the same also applies to DCs.

dobbie82

Payslips normally arrive on a tuesday, employer then sends funds (from hsbc to my natwest account.. so yes RBS group) to normally clear friday morning (normally there just after midnight) but due to xmas post they arrived wednesday thus making money not clear til monday.

I have an agreed overdraft but dont want to use it. December is the only month that the account ever gets this low anyway. so its not a case of reckless spending, by monday there will be enough money in there to see me to the end of jaunary.

dunstonh

BACS doesnt have anything to do with Christmas post and isnt held up at Christmas with the exception of bank holidays.

That used to be the case Dunstonh ... but I'm dubious it still is, as a number of the Banks now run their systems over the weekend. And, for those, the previously accurate notion that weekends don't exist - only really applies to the cheque clearing cycles.

Of course, my time out of banking has allowed a lot to change but when I look at Lloyds internet banking it just looks similar (albeit with a nicer font and graphical background) to the old printout 2 and printout 10 we used to get all those years ago. We used to get people coming in on a Saturday to get a printout 10 to see what was going through on a Monday. If a lending manager was in on a Saturday he was able to work on the lists of potential over limit accounts even though technically they were not over their limit until Monday.

I do wonder if the changes to the clearing cycle is causing the banks to start making changes that puts them out of sync with each other on certain things (like Sat, Sun, Mon being one day) until the final changes to the clearing cycle are in place.

The other thing that could impact on it is that some banks are not real time but some are (and increasingly more will go real time). Real time transactions are going to catch a lot of people out who as used to "overnight" transactions when in future it will be when they are processed that matters. This is noticeable by the number of banks insisting that you have the money in your account the previous working day whereas in the past you had up to close of business of the same working day.

PBA

YorkshireBoy wrote: »

That's not true with my current accounts PBA.

It's almost certainly true if you look at the terms & conditions, but in practise the bank may allow this.

Anyways, this whole thread is now irrelevant as the OP has stated she has an overdraft agreed, so the bank isn't stopping any transactions but merely reporting details of the account.

MarkyMarkD

Salaries are not paid by BACS, but direct credit.

Direct credit is like the exact opposite of direct debit. AFAIK BACS transactions aren't pre-notified to the recipient bank - when the money arrives is when it arrives. Direct debit and direct credit transactions ARE pre-notified, with a value date, so that's why they are treated differently to standard BACS credits.

YorkshireBoy

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

AFAIK BACS transactions aren't pre-notified to the recipient bank - when the money arrives is when it arrives.

So, in the example I gave in post #9, my Nationwide=>Yorkshire Bank (and also other transfers in from Egg/Halifax/A&L/et al) was done as a BACS Direct Credit? Because, as I've already said, these transactions DO seem to be "pre-notified" being as I can 'see' Monday's transactions (and their impact on my available balance) on Friday evening.

I've just been taking a look around the BACS site and I'm struggling to grasp the fundamental difference between BACS transfers (as we know them on here) and BACS Direct Credits...other than the latter is what is used for salary/pension payments from 'organisations'.