Changing the location of driveway in the front garden - no pavement

_Sam_

Would I need to involve council or anyone in order to move the driveway from left to right? There is no pavement as far as I understand, from the deeds it looks like I own the land right up to the road. There is a low wall currently where the new driveway would go, and between that low wall and the road there is a tarmacked "verge" which again doesn't look like it is a footpath as it is within my boundary. There is no kerb, although the road itself is not private (it becomes privately maintained right past my house).

I'm planning to keep the verge only on the other side (where the current driveway is) and have it as a grass verge. In other words, the new fence that would go on the left will be couple of feet away from the road behind the grass verge, pretty much mirroring the situation that is now except grassing the verge.

Section62

_Sam_ said:

Would I need to involve council or anyone in order to move the driveway from left to right? There is no pavement as far as I understand, from the deeds it looks like I own the land right up to the road. There is a low wall currently where the new driveway would go, and between that low wall and the road there is a tarmacked "verge" which again doesn't look like it is a footpath as it is within my boundary. There is no kerb, although the road itself is not private (it becomes privately maintained right past my house).

I'm planning to keep the verge only on the other side (where the current driveway is) and have it as a grass verge. In other words, the new fence that would go on the left will be couple of feet away from the road behind the grass verge, pretty much mirroring the situation that is now except grassing the verge.

Yes, if you believe the road outside your house where you want to make the change is (public) highway then you need to ask the council as highway authority.

The lack of a kerb probably means you won't need to go through the crossover application process, but making the change without telling/asking the council may cause you problems when you come to sell.

If the 'verge' is highway then you can't make alterations to it without the highway authority's consent.

Don't rely on the red line on the plan to accurately show the boundary between your private land and highway - the plans aren't that accurate, and even if you do own the land it doesn't mean it isn't highway.

It also looks like you have some level differences to deal with.  Make sure that is done properly to avoid damage to your bungalow, and make sure the drainage is correctly arranged. or you may get damp/flooding problems.

_Sam_

I found the definition of highway which says "A highway is a way over which there exists a public right of passage, that is to say a right for all Her Majesty’s subjects at all seasons of the year freely and at their will to pass and repass without let or hindrance." 

It isn't mentioned in the deeds that there is a right of way anywhere. Although occasionally neighbours' visitors would park their car on that verge. If I can do this change, I would want it to look just as it does on the opposite side, grass with some stones, so people won't be able to park.

Not wanting to do this to prevent others' parking, just think that it would look much nicer with the grass verge and some flowers maybe rather than dull tarmac.

_Sam_

Section62 said:

It also looks like you have some level differences to deal with.  Make sure that is done properly to avoid damage to your bungalow, and make sure the drainage is correctly arranged. or you may get damp/flooding problems.

Yes will take these into account definitely - won't be doing it myself, will be looking for someone experienced! I was also thinking grass verge should be seen by the council as an improvement to the current situation? As water can permeate it as opposed to run down the street, good for the environment too, and we will be getting rid of the tarmac in the driveway as well for something permeable. 

At the moment using the driveway/parking is easy to come in (front in), but difficult to come out - because we have to back in to the private road and neighbours don't like it. When the change is done, to come in we'd be able to drive forward alongside the bungalow without crossing onto the private road, and then back into the drive. Then come out easily by turning left. So in other words will be easy both ways, another improvement.

Section62

_Sam_ said:

I found the definition of highway which says "A highway is a way over which there exists a public right of passage, that is to say a right for all Her Majesty’s subjects at all seasons of the year freely and at their will to pass and repass without let or hindrance." 

It isn't mentioned in the deeds that there is a right of way anywhere. Although occasionally neighbours' visitors would park their car on that verge. If I can do this change, I would want it to look just as it does on the opposite side, grass with some stones, so people won't be able to park.

If the land is highway then it is very unlikey there would be a reference in the deeds to a RoW.  Deeds usually only refer to private rights of way.  Public rights are protected by law and don't need to be granted by deeds.

The question is where will the highway authority decide the highway boundary is.

If your neighbours visitors currently park there you can be fairly sure the neighbours will be likely to get on to the highway authority and swear that the 'verge' is highway that their visitors have a right to use.

Bear in mind it is an offence to start digging up a highway without the consent of the highway authority....

_Sam_

Section62 said:

If your neighbours visitors currently park there you can be fairly sure the neighbours will be likely to get on to the highway authority and swear that the 'verge' is highway that their visitors have a right to use.

Bit worried about that, but the only one I've seen parked there few times was a visitor to the houses up the private road - and it is those neighbours that would prefer we didn't touch their road, which is what changing the driveway would achieve. Here's hoping they'll look on the bright side   

I guess I'll have to go and speak to the council, only one way to find out. Can they unilaterally decide where the boundary of the highway is? Or do they have to have regard to people ownership deeds etc.

Looking from the other angle it appears very symmetrical the positions of the opposite neighbour and us - on both sides the kerb/footpath finishes just before our "verges" begin.

Section62

_Sam_ said:

I guess I'll have to go and speak to the council, only one way to find out. Can they unilaterally decide where the boundary of the highway is? Or do they have to have regard to people ownership deeds etc.

It depends how the highway came into being.  If the road was adopted in recent times there will be a plan (somewhere) showing the extent of the adopted highway.  Older and historic roads rarely have accurately defined limits on the highway, especially where the freehold of the land under the highway is still owned by the adjoining property.

Looking at your latest picture I'd suggest there are good reasons for the highway to extend from your low wall to the neighbour's wall opposite.  It 'looks' like the intention was to have land either side of the road which would form part of the width of the highway.  Also, on your side it looks like there is a BT/Electric pole set some distance back, and in the 'verge' opposite there seems to be a street lighting column.  Whilst either of those can be found on private land, where they are close to a road it tends to indicate the land is highway.

Essentially, the council doesn't have a right to make a unilateral decision about the location of the highway boundary, but if you disagree with them you would need to argue your case in court (at your cost) with no guarantee the judge will agree with you.

markin

Would be easier to just widen the current drive to 3 car drive, anything else would just look odd to me. Its almost certain the verge is seen as highway or when you ask they will amend any plans so it is. And where is the gas pipe.

Is the car turning circle so big you cant back all the way out straight and then turn using all the verge as the road.

zooming in i can see what looks like you're Tyre marks and using the full width of the road and widening the drive a meter would make it easy to stay off the concrete, Is the concrete defiantly right up to their land on the deeds or have they gone over a little to meet the road?

_Sam_

Yes the car is large-ish both length and width - making driveway larger would certainly help the reversing issue, but not the other reasons we have for the change, to make the front garden looking nicer and more useable. There will be a new front door where the garage door currently is, it'll be nicer if the car is on the other side and not right up to the front door.

I had a look through more documents the solicitors sent us, on all plans when they did searches it explicitly identifies the verge as belonging to us. Had a look also on the gov website, it says:

"You will not need planning permission if a new or replacement driveway of any size uses permeable (or porous) surfacing, such as gravel, permeable concrete block paving or porous asphalt, or if the rainwater is directed to a lawn or border to drain naturally."

The reasons to ask permission when there is a dropped kerb is involved, is stated as safety/reinforcing footpath due to whatever might be underneath, but in my case there is nothing to reinforce. If cars have been able to safely park on the verge, they should be able to safely drive over it?

Because bottom line I won't be changing the verge, it'll remain as it is in terms of its dimensions and location, I'll simply move the driveway to the other side of it. The "digging up" in order to plant grass will be where the current driveway is, which again seems to me not to raise any issues of safety, as digging up for some grass is much less deep than digging up for a drive which had been conducted already....

Section62

_Sam_ said:

I had a look through more documents the solicitors sent us, on all plans when they did searches it explicitly identifies the verge as belonging to us.

Ownership of the land is separate from whether it is highway or not.  You can own (public) highway as an adjoining land owner - it doesn't mean the land isn't highway.

_Sam_ said:

Had a look also on the gov website, it says:

"You will not need planning permission if a new or replacement driveway of any size uses permeable (or porous) surfacing, such as gravel, permeable concrete block paving or porous asphalt, or if the rainwater is directed to a lawn or border to drain naturally."

That only tells half the story.  Whether or not you'll need planning consent for the changes depends on your specific circumstances.  You'd be best to ask the local council for advice regarding your specific property - including whether or not you are allowed to convert the garage.

_Sam_ said:

The reasons to ask permission when there is a dropped kerb is involved, is stated as safety/reinforcing footpath due to whatever might be underneath, but in my case there is nothing to reinforce. If cars have been able to safely park on the verge, they should be able to safely drive over it?

Again, only half the story.  If the land is highway you need the consent of the highway authority regardless of whether or not there is anything to reinforce.  It is the act of carrying out work and/or alterations to the highway which requires consent.

But in response to that specific point, how do you know cars have been safely parking on the verge? You won't necessarily be able to see the damage being done underground.

_Sam_ said:

Because bottom line I won't be changing the verge, it'll remain as it is in terms of its dimensions and location, I'll simply move the driveway to the other side of it. The "digging up" in order to plant grass will be where the current driveway is, which again seems to me not to raise any issues of safety, as digging up for some grass is much less deep than digging up for a drive which had been conducted already....

You will be changing the 'verge' if you are moving the driveway from one side of your garden to the other.

From a safety perspective you don't know what is under the surface of the 'verge' and driveway. It could be high voltage electric cables. If you damage one of those while digging you may not live to pay the very expensive cost of the damage you've caused.

That applies whether or not the land is highway as it is quite common for utility equipment to be installed in a 'service strip' along the edge of the carriageway.

Don't mess around and take risks - causing damage to utility equipment can be extremely expensive.

_Sam_

Section62 said:

Ownership of the land is separate from whether it is highway or not.  You can own (public) highway as an adjoining land owner - it doesn't mean the land isn't highway.

Agree, but ownership does mean that I maintain that part of highway and not the highway authority, hence while I cannot enclose the verge with the fence I should be within my rights to plant some grass on it.

Many thanks for your replies! I understand better to be safe than sorry, but also it doesn't seem a very good idea to run to the council for confirmation on every little thing I may want to do in my garden. It just doesn't seem plausible that planting some grass is going to damage high voltage lines or any other services below the ground, that's why I refer to it as a little thing. Sadly local authorities aren't perfect and plenty of people there can make mistakes, and can easily complicate things unnecessarily!