Reposit

Adezoo

canaldumidi said:

GDB2222 said:

canaldumidi said:

Adezoo said:

canaldumidi said:

Your sister paid a 'fee' (not a deposit) at the start. This is non-refundable.

If she is not happy with proposed charges at the end (note, these are not 'deductions') she can raise a dispute by paying £60 to Reposit who will refer it to independant arbitrators. The £60 is refundable if the arbitrators decide the charges were not fully justified.

I'd be interested to know what the LL/agent can do if the tenant simply declines to pay the charges but not raise a 'reposit dispute'. I assume the LL/agent would then have to go to court to claim the charges and the T could then defend the claim in a small claims court.

I would guess so. I’ve emailed them about my payment for the removal of the LED lights but I don’t see why she would pay for cleaning and painting when nothing was done to it. The room was spotless, I even thought it was the picture after cleaning. That room could have been let the same day and nothing would have happened. The falling, broken wardrobe she complained about for the whole stay was changed only after she moved out to take check out pictures.

Unless they appear willing to negotiate the charges (down) with you, I would stop communicating with them.

Unless or until they start court action. Even a 'Letter Before Action' is often just a scare tactic.

You should not need a lawyer to defend any claim they make in court. The Small Claims Court is held in a side room, informally, with no lawyers allowed. You simply need to present your side of the story along with, ideally, photos and any orther evidence.

As for cleaning communal areas which are not your sole responsibility, the LL will have a huge struggle convincing a judge you are liable!

Lawyers are allowed, but the court won't normally award costs for representation. So, it would be unusual to see a lawyer for such a tiny case.

The cost of cleaning communal areas - does that depend on the what's in the terms of the lease? If there are several students sharing a house, the landlord really needs the whole kitchen cleaned when they move out, not just one corner of it.

True- there are some unclear aspects of this. However OP said earlier " how can you charge £100 for cleaning which I believe is for the kitchen when other people are living there. " which I took to mean that other occupants of this HMO are not vacating at the same time.

So, just to clarify:

* is this England?Wales?.....

* Is this an HMO (and if so is it registered as such)?

* was the tenancy a sole tenancy (just one name on the contract), or 'joint and several' (is contract is shared with other occupants tough sems unlikely)

* what area(s) does the tenancy say is included eg sole use of bedroom? Shared use of xxxxx..??

* what does the tenancy say, if anything, about responsibility for cleaning esp shared areas?

* how many other occupants? Moved in when? Moving out or not?

Pleae quote where possible.

The other tenants did not vacate at the same time as my sister, it’s a HMO, but not a shared house. What I mean is each individual is a “stranger” and just end up living in the same flat/house. This is in England and it is used as HMO but there are only about 3/4 rooms therefore not sure if it’s registered. I know that up to a certain amount you don’t have to submit a HMO request (?) could be wrong. 

Only the kitchen is shared, the room is an en-suite. The tenancy says to look after the property. But I don’t think any tenant can be fully liable for the kitchen because other people still live there so I could clean it all day but wouldn’t help. 

Adezoo

theartfullodger said:

The suggestion of checking if uni has a housing office (or similar name) is not that they provide the accommodation but may have advice or knowledge of agent/landlord or may be able to apply "pressure" on agent/landlord.

Oh yeah, apologies didn’t know they could do that. I’ll ask her to try this. Thanks 😊 

dimbo61

I am a student HMO Landlord and would not dream of offering a tenancy to individuals.
All the student tenants Must go on a joint and several tenancy and they are responsible for the whole property.
If you offer individual tenancies then you open a Huge can of worms with the council. ( IE bedsits and council tax for each room.)
Were all the tenants students ?
Why did they not all move out at once ?
Did your sister receive a copy of the EPC for the property along with her tenancy agreement ?
Did she sign an Inventory with Video or Photos when she moved in ?
Did she get given a copy of the EICR, and GSC ?
Did she see the PAT testing stickers on the white goods IE fridge freezer, washing machine, microwave, etc

Did the Landlord carry out Right to Rent checks ?
A large HMO has 5+ unrelated tenants and must be registered with the local council who will inspect and charge a fee every 5 years of over £1000.
Small properties with upto 4 tenants can be a small HMO but in many areas does not require a licence or inspection.
Did the property have mains wired interlinked smoke alarms on each floor.
Fire blanket ? 
I would speak to the University accommodation office first and complain about the Lettings agents and Reposit

canaldumidi

Adezoo said:

canaldumidi said:

GDB2222 said:

canaldumidi said:

Adezoo said:

canaldumidi said:

Your sister paid a 'fee' (not a deposit) at the start. This is non-refundable.

If she is not happy with proposed charges at the end (note, these are not 'deductions') she can raise a dispute by paying £60 to Reposit who will refer it to independant arbitrators. The £60 is refundable if the arbitrators decide the charges were not fully justified.

I'd be interested to know what the LL/agent can do if the tenant simply declines to pay the charges but not raise a 'reposit dispute'. I assume the LL/agent would then have to go to court to claim the charges and the T could then defend the claim in a small claims court.

I would guess so. I’ve emailed them about my payment for the removal of the LED lights but I don’t see why she would pay for cleaning and painting when nothing was done to it. The room was spotless, I even thought it was the picture after cleaning. That room could have been let the same day and nothing would have happened. The falling, broken wardrobe she complained about for the whole stay was changed only after she moved out to take check out pictures.

Unless they appear willing to negotiate the charges (down) with you, I would stop communicating with them.

Unless or until they start court action. Even a 'Letter Before Action' is often just a scare tactic.

You should not need a lawyer to defend any claim they make in court. The Small Claims Court is held in a side room, informally, with no lawyers allowed. You simply need to present your side of the story along with, ideally, photos and any orther evidence.

As for cleaning communal areas which are not your sole responsibility, the LL will have a huge struggle convincing a judge you are liable!

Lawyers are allowed, but the court won't normally award costs for representation. So, it would be unusual to see a lawyer for such a tiny case.

The cost of cleaning communal areas - does that depend on the what's in the terms of the lease? If there are several students sharing a house, the landlord really needs the whole kitchen cleaned when they move out, not just one corner of it.

True- there are some unclear aspects of this. However OP said earlier " how can you charge £100 for cleaning which I believe is for the kitchen when other people are living there. " which I took to mean that other occupants of this HMO are not vacating at the same time.

So, just to clarify:

* is this England?Wales?.....

* Is this an HMO (and if so is it registered as such)?

* was the tenancy a sole tenancy (just one name on the contract), or 'joint and several' (is contract is shared with other occupants tough sems unlikely)

* what area(s) does the tenancy say is included eg sole use of bedroom? Shared use of xxxxx..??

* what does the tenancy say, if anything, about responsibility for cleaning esp shared areas?

* how many other occupants? Moved in when? Moving out or not?

Pleae quote where possible.

The other tenants did not vacate at the same time as my sister, it’s a HMO, but not a shared house. What I mean is each individual is a “stranger” and just end up living in the same flat/house. This is in England and it is used as HMO but there are only about 3/4 rooms therefore not sure if it’s registered. I know that up to a certain amount you don’t have to submit a HMO request (?) could be wrong. 

Only the kitchen is shared, the room is an en-suite. The tenancy says to look after the property. But I don’t think any tenant can be fully liable for the kitchen because other people still live there so I could clean it all day but wouldn’t help. 

* Is this an HMO (and if so is it registered as such)?

* was the tenancy a sole tenancy (just one name on the contract), or 'joint and several' (is contract is shared with other occupants tough sems unlikely)

* what area(s) does the tenancy say is included eg sole use of bedroom? Shared use of xxxxx..??

* what does the tenancy say, if anything, about responsibility for cleaning esp shared areas?

* how many other occupants? Moved in when? Moving out or not?

Pleae quote where possible.

Were all the tenants students ?
Why did they not all move out at once ?
Did your sister receive a copy of the EPC for the property along with her tenancy agreement ?
Did she sign an Inventory with Video or Photos when she moved in ?
Did she get given a copy of the EICR, and GSC ?
Did she see the PAT testing stickers on the white goods IE fridge freezer, washing machine, microwave, etcDid the Landlord carry out Right to Rent checks ?
A large HMO has 5+ unrelated tenants and must be registered with the local council who will inspect and charge a fee every 5 years of over £1000.
Small properties with upto 4 tenants can be a small HMO but in many areas does not require a licence or inspection.
Did the property have mains wired interlinked smoke alarms on each floor.
Fire blanket ?

saajan_12

Adezoo said:

Robbo66 said:

Adezoo said:

Robbo66 said:

Adezoo said:

theartfullodger said:

Your sister (not you) should dispute any deductions through deposit scheme.  Those schemes were brought in to give tenant better protection from avaricious landlords and agents.

Reposit does not seem to allow it. They say it’s final and cannot be disputed. They are threatening court but I am sure you should be able to dispute the price 

Reposit are a zero deposit scheme so there is no one to dispute the claim with but Reposit. A tenant pays the equivalent of a weeks rent to move in to a house. Repsoit then indemnify the Landlord for 8 weeks rent against lost rent or damage. Should they pay out they claim this back from the tenant. from their website

 "Reposit isn’t tenants’ liability insurance; our tenants remain liable for any unreasonable damage or unpaid rent at the end of tenancy."  https://reposit.co.uk/blog/reposit-vs-deposit/

My sister has proof that the room was left in the same state as initially, apart from the LED lights that was left in the room. So there’s no damage in there. There was no unpaid rents as well. Painting and deep cleaning as they might call it isn’t a good enough reason. 

Only other option is to write to them dispute the charges, if they dont agree they will start court proceedings to reclaim the money at that point you can use your photos as evidence as to why the money isnt owed and hope the judge agrees.

You say she rented a room, i guess this was in a shared house, did she have her own tenancy agreement for her room or one that was signed by all the tenants as this will make a difference.

That would be the best case to be honest. The house is a student HMO. You don’t choose your house mates and you’re responsible for your OWN rent. Therefore why is she expected to pay when “strangers” don’t clean. Using the kitchen as evidence is crazy, my sister has complained several times about the fact that people don’t clean in that house. 

Main two questions we really need answered before any advice can be vaguely sensical below. 

• Does sister have an individual tenancy for her room only and access to the shared areas, or a "joint and several" tenancy where the other co-tenants are named and jointly rent the whole property together? 
• How was the tenancy ended (did someone serve notice, or mutually agree to end, or end of a fixed term, or deed of variation, etc etc)

Whether the other housemates are socially strangers or not is not the deciding factor, you need to establish what the contractual relationship and what if any responsibility sister had over shared areas. 

Adezoo

saajan_12 said:

Adezoo said:

Robbo66 said:

Adezoo said:

Robbo66 said:

Adezoo said:

theartfullodger said:

Your sister (not you) should dispute any deductions through deposit scheme.  Those schemes were brought in to give tenant better protection from avaricious landlords and agents.

Reposit does not seem to allow it. They say it’s final and cannot be disputed. They are threatening court but I am sure you should be able to dispute the price 

Reposit are a zero deposit scheme so there is no one to dispute the claim with but Reposit. A tenant pays the equivalent of a weeks rent to move in to a house. Repsoit then indemnify the Landlord for 8 weeks rent against lost rent or damage. Should they pay out they claim this back from the tenant. from their website

 "Reposit isn’t tenants’ liability insurance; our tenants remain liable for any unreasonable damage or unpaid rent at the end of tenancy."  https://reposit.co.uk/blog/reposit-vs-deposit/

My sister has proof that the room was left in the same state as initially, apart from the LED lights that was left in the room. So there’s no damage in there. There was no unpaid rents as well. Painting and deep cleaning as they might call it isn’t a good enough reason. 

Only other option is to write to them dispute the charges, if they dont agree they will start court proceedings to reclaim the money at that point you can use your photos as evidence as to why the money isnt owed and hope the judge agrees.

You say she rented a room, i guess this was in a shared house, did she have her own tenancy agreement for her room or one that was signed by all the tenants as this will make a difference.

That would be the best case to be honest. The house is a student HMO. You don’t choose your house mates and you’re responsible for your OWN rent. Therefore why is she expected to pay when “strangers” don’t clean. Using the kitchen as evidence is crazy, my sister has complained several times about the fact that people don’t clean in that house. 

Main two questions we really need answered before any advice can be vaguely sensical below. 

• Does sister have an individual tenancy for her room only and access to the shared areas, or a "joint and several" tenancy where the other co-tenants are named and jointly rent the whole property together? 
• How was the tenancy ended (did someone serve notice, or mutually agree to end, or end of a fixed term, or deed of variation, etc etc)

Whether the other housemates are socially strangers or not is not the deciding factor, you need to establish what the contractual relationship and what if any responsibility sister had over shared areas. 

No, she was renting the room only with access to the kitchen which is the only common/shared area. The room is an en-suite room therefore she had her own toilet. The name only had my sister in it which when renting came into agreement with the agent to rent the ROOM for a fixed term (12 months). They asked if she wanted to extend the contract but she didn’t want to as she wanted to move back home. There is no joint rent or group tenancy. My sister does not have any business with who is renting the other rooms basically. In her 12 months in, two rooms have been re-let at different times. 

Adezoo

canaldumidi said:

Adezoo said:

canaldumidi said:

GDB2222 said:

canaldumidi said:

Adezoo said:

canaldumidi said:

Your sister paid a 'fee' (not a deposit) at the start. This is non-refundable.

If she is not happy with proposed charges at the end (note, these are not 'deductions') she can raise a dispute by paying £60 to Reposit who will refer it to independant arbitrators. The £60 is refundable if the arbitrators decide the charges were not fully justified.

I'd be interested to know what the LL/agent can do if the tenant simply declines to pay the charges but not raise a 'reposit dispute'. I assume the LL/agent would then have to go to court to claim the charges and the T could then defend the claim in a small claims court.

I would guess so. I’ve emailed them about my payment for the removal of the LED lights but I don’t see why she would pay for cleaning and painting when nothing was done to it. The room was spotless, I even thought it was the picture after cleaning. That room could have been let the same day and nothing would have happened. The falling, broken wardrobe she complained about for the whole stay was changed only after she moved out to take check out pictures.

Unless they appear willing to negotiate the charges (down) with you, I would stop communicating with them.

Unless or until they start court action. Even a 'Letter Before Action' is often just a scare tactic.

You should not need a lawyer to defend any claim they make in court. The Small Claims Court is held in a side room, informally, with no lawyers allowed. You simply need to present your side of the story along with, ideally, photos and any orther evidence.

As for cleaning communal areas which are not your sole responsibility, the LL will have a huge struggle convincing a judge you are liable!

Lawyers are allowed, but the court won't normally award costs for representation. So, it would be unusual to see a lawyer for such a tiny case.

The cost of cleaning communal areas - does that depend on the what's in the terms of the lease? If there are several students sharing a house, the landlord really needs the whole kitchen cleaned when they move out, not just one corner of it.

True- there are some unclear aspects of this. However OP said earlier " how can you charge £100 for cleaning which I believe is for the kitchen when other people are living there. " which I took to mean that other occupants of this HMO are not vacating at the same time.

So, just to clarify:

* is this England?Wales?.....

* Is this an HMO (and if so is it registered as such)?

* was the tenancy a sole tenancy (just one name on the contract), or 'joint and several' (is contract is shared with other occupants tough sems unlikely)

* what area(s) does the tenancy say is included eg sole use of bedroom? Shared use of xxxxx..??

* what does the tenancy say, if anything, about responsibility for cleaning esp shared areas?

* how many other occupants? Moved in when? Moving out or not?

Pleae quote where possible.

The other tenants did not vacate at the same time as my sister, it’s a HMO, but not a shared house. What I mean is each individual is a “stranger” and just end up living in the same flat/house. This is in England and it is used as HMO but there are only about 3/4 rooms therefore not sure if it’s registered. I know that up to a certain amount you don’t have to submit a HMO request (?) could be wrong. 

Only the kitchen is shared, the room is an en-suite. The tenancy says to look after the property. But I don’t think any tenant can be fully liable for the kitchen because other people still live there so I could clean it all day but wouldn’t help. 

* Is this an HMO (and if so is it registered as such)?

* was the tenancy a sole tenancy (just one name on the contract), or 'joint and several' (is contract is shared with other occupants tough sems unlikely)

* what area(s) does the tenancy say is included eg sole use of bedroom? Shared use of xxxxx..??

* what does the tenancy say, if anything, about responsibility for cleaning esp shared areas?

* how many other occupants? Moved in when? Moving out or not?

Pleae quote where possible.

Were all the tenants students ?
Why did they not all move out at once ?
Did your sister receive a copy of the EPC for the property along with her tenancy agreement ?
Did she sign an Inventory with Video or Photos when she moved in ?
Did she get given a copy of the EICR, and GSC ?
Did she see the PAT testing stickers on the white goods IE fridge freezer, washing machine, microwave, etcDid the Landlord carry out Right to Rent checks ?
A large HMO has 5+ unrelated tenants and must be registered with the local council who will inspect and charge a fee every 5 years of over £1000.
Small properties with upto 4 tenants can be a small HMO but in many areas does not require a licence or inspection.
Did the property have mains wired interlinked smoke alarms on each floor.
Fire blanket ?

Based on the contract, 

Tenant(s): **only her name**

Property: **only the room she was renting**
Term: 12 months with dates from April 2021 to April 2022

All thosepremises (“theproperty”)comprisingonedwellingunittogether withall means ofaccess there to save for any exclusions as specified in this Agreement; and

The use of the garden and garage (if any) save for any exclusions as specified in this agreement

The fixtures, furniture and effects (“the contents”) as specified in the Inventory of Contents and

With communal areas, it says the same keep tidy and clean. If found not keeping tidy and clean when there is an inspection, then you can be “warned” or so. 

3 tenants in total. While she was there 2 people moved out at different times. 2 more moved in. Someone already replaced my sister few days later. 

Adezoo

dimbo61 said:

I am a student HMO Landlord and would not dream of offering a tenancy to individuals.
All the student tenants Must go on a joint and several tenancy and they are responsible for the whole property.
If you offer individual tenancies then you open a Huge can of worms with the council. ( IE bedsits and council tax for each room.)
Were all the tenants students ?
Why did they not all move out at once ?
Did your sister receive a copy of the EPC for the property along with her tenancy agreement ?
Did she sign an Inventory with Video or Photos when she moved in ?
Did she get given a copy of the EICR, and GSC ?
Did she see the PAT testing stickers on the white goods IE fridge freezer, washing machine, microwave, etc

Did the Landlord carry out Right to Rent checks ?
A large HMO has 5+ unrelated tenants and must be registered with the local council who will inspect and charge a fee every 5 years of over £1000.
Small properties with upto 4 tenants can be a small HMO but in many areas does not require a licence or inspection.
Did the property have mains wired interlinked smoke alarms on each floor.
Fire blanket ? 
I would speak to the University accommodation office first and complain about the Lettings agents and Reposit

The property had 3 rooms only which were all en-suite, no shared toilet. The only shared areas are the kitchen and hallway. They are all students as one guy had his contract terminated for finishing university. Because she’s a student she didn’t have to pay council tax. They didn’t move out all at once because it’s not a September to June type of contract, my sister moved in April 2021 and her contract ended in April 2022. Some of her previous flat mates left while she was still in, and when she left, there were two of the new flat mates. So there’s no fix time for moving in. The contact didn’t receive the EPC. She didn’t have an inventory but she did take pictures and videos before moving in. To be honest most of this checks were not done. The wardrobe in her room was a hazard (very bent on the side, could have fallen at any time). She tried to ask the agent but nothing was done for 12 months. Once she moved out they changed it to take the check out picture lol

canaldumidi

If her contract ended in April 22 (date?) then what notice has she served?

All thosepremises (“theproperty”)comprisingonedwellingunittogether withall means ofaccess there to save for any exclusions as specified in this Agreement; and

The use of the garden and garage (if any) save for any exclusions as specified in this agreement

What is the definition given for the "dwelling unit"?

If just her room, what right does she have to use the kitchen?

If the "dwelling Unit" comprises the prperty, then she is renting the entire property....