Banned from booking with EasyJet

CKhalvashi

Butts said:

Westin said:

I guess that is a software development that EZY feel is not necessary or a priority at this time.

It does not sound like the chargeback was valid and therefore the debt still owed on the original flight ticket.

The situation could have been avoid.

If the chargeback was not valid and the Card Company failed to ascertain this, perhaps they should be liable if they have not correctly investigated the case, and pay Easyjet themselves ?

However OP would then owe the card company the same amount of money as they clearly instigated this fraudulent refund.

OP is lucky that airlines aren't asking for their reasonable expenses (a chargeback costs us about £20 plus an hour of staff time) on top of this fraud and pushing for a criminal prosecution.

Before you argue (as I know you're going to) on my definition, fraud is legally the use of deception to gain a benefit for one person to the detriment of another. OP has claimed funds they were not entitled to and therefore have acted fraudulently by misrepresenting the position.

VG1 said:

Thank you all for your feedback. This was back in July 2020. Government advice was essential travel only. EasyJet were still flying there. I considered my claim legitimate, not fraudulent because of government advice. My credit card company agreed.  

You have clearly breached the terms of the contract you freely agreed to in buying a non-refundable flight. If you required such flexibility, selected airlines offer fully refundable flights which are priced accordingly. Easyjet are not an airline that offers this service.

You do not have a legitimate claim and have defrauded Easyjet of their funds. They are therefore entitled to not give you further service until you settle your debts.

silvercar

I still think EasyJet should make this clear when you book a flight eg

outstanding debt …..  £200
new flights……..£300
total due…..£500.

then you know what is due if you wish to book the flights.

I wonder what happens if someone else books flights for you ?

CKhalvashi

silvercar said:

I still think EasyJet should make this clear when you book a flight eg

outstanding debt …..  £200
new flights……..£300
total due…..£500.

then you know what is due if you wish to book the flights.

I wonder what happens if someone else books flights for you ?

That's an interesting question.

Not directly Easyjet, but I have 2 Ryanair accounts, one for my personal e-mail and one for a business e-mail. Never tried to chargeback a flight that shouldn't have been refunded (but did chargeback several FR/RK bookings in March/April/May 2020 that they refused to refund despite them cancelling, plus serving them with a statutory demand on another), but have used the account since without issues. The flights I've booked (Ryanair are the only reasonable option on this route as my preferred airline don't have an evening flight at all for the return) recently have used one e-mail for the booking and another for access via the app on my phone, so don't know if they've linked the accounts in some way.

I agree that the debt collection process could be more transparent, but don't see a legal issue with what Easyjet have done. Money is owed either way and will need to be paid for OP to avail of the services, as per Easyjet's terms.

onashoestring

@VG1 please can you confirm some details?

- What was the amount that you initially re-claimed by chargeback ? 

- What was the amount you paid when you attempted to book new flights ? 

- When you spoke to Easyjet did they advise you how much your debt currently is and of the process for paying this back ?

Marvel1

VG1 said:

Thank you all for your feedback. This was back in July 2020. Government advice was essential travel only. EasyJet were still flying there. I considered my claim legitimate, not fraudulent because of government advice. My credit card company agreed.  

So you didn't go through your travel insurance and thought this was an easy claim instead?

Also the key word is advice so it was up to you.

Marvel1

silvercar said:

I still think EasyJet should make this clear when you book a flight eg

outstanding debt …..  £200
new flights……..£300
total due…..£500.

then you know what is due if you wish to book the flights.

I wonder what happens if someone else books flights for you ?

Then you know not book with Easy Jet as you committed fraud.

If I booked the flight for someone on my card, I would expect payment from the person I did it for regardless.

diystarter7

MalMonroe said:

To be honest, I'd be absolutely delighted to be banned by EasyJet. Not that I've ever flown with them but I never want to either. 

But all facetiousness aside, that means that the credit card issuer has claimed the money back from EJ. 

There's info from MSE in the following link about that, in pink. Sorry, it's a bit late for your current situation but maybe helpful in future.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/section75-protect-your-purchases/

You made me LOL, the bold bit.

jimi_man

CKhalvashi said:

Before you argue (as I know you're going to) on my definition, fraud is legally the use of deception to gain a benefit for one person to the detriment of another. OP has claimed funds they were not entitled to and therefore have acted fraudulently by misrepresenting the position.

You have clearly breached the terms of the contract you freely agreed to in buying a non-refundable flight. If you required such flexibility, selected airlines offer fully refundable flights which are priced accordingly. Easyjet are not an airline that offers this service.

Before you argue (as I know you're going to) on my definition, fraud is legally the use of deception to gain a benefit for one person to the detriment of another. OP has claimed funds they were not entitled to and therefore have acted fraudulently by misrepresenting the position.

You do not have a legitimate claim and have defrauded Easyjet of their funds. They are therefore entitled to not give you further service until you settle your debts.

I'm sorry, this is not wholly correct.

You haven't differentiated between civil fraud and criminal fraud and your post reads as though it is criminal fraud that is being breached. 

The overriding principle in (criminal) fraud offences which you haven't mentioned, is 'dishonesty'. It doesn't matter what the person has done, whether they have misrepresented the position or how much they have gained (or caused someone to lose). Unless they have acted dishonestly then there is no offence. Fraud offences are completely focussed on the conduct of the defendant - not, as you have intimated, on the actions taken. Just because the OP has 'claimed funds they were not entitled to' doesn't automatically mean they have committed (criminal) fraud. 

If it is civil fraud that you are referring to then the dishonesty aspect doesn't necessarily apply. However in relation to the 'misrepresentation' or false representation then it must not only be untrue, but also that the person making it needs to know that it is untrue or at least be reckless as to whether that's the case. Civil fraud is vastly more complex than criminal fraud and an in depth discussion is probably beyond this thread. However in general, actions alone do not amount to fraud, which is what you are portraying.

In this case, if the OP considered the claim legitimate and was not dishonest in his actions (which is what he said), then he will have not committed (criminal) fraud. Leaving aside any dishonesty aspect, if he didn't know that the representation was false, (again his post suggests that he made it in good faith) then it's unlikely to be fraud under civil law either. He may well have breached the terms of the contract with Easyjet but that in itself isn't necessarily fraud. 

It might seem a pedantic discussion on the law, but the information presented may well deter many others from making legitimate claims because they think they might be acting fraudulently, when that is highly unlikely to be the case, although I do understand that you may well be warning people with the best of intentions. . This is a money saving site that people come to for information on topics such as this, so any information on topics such as this should not be misleading. 

I do agree that Easyjet can prevent further bookings until the OP has settled their debts and is probably a reasonable action to take.