Conflicting information on installation of new range cooker

FatherTireseus

I am getting conflicting information about the proposed installation of a new range cooker so I thought I would turn to the knowledgeable folk of the forum for views.

20 years ago we bought what was then a new build (small local builder) with a fully fitted kitchen.  The existing range cooker is a Stoves Newhome model, 99.6cm wide.

We’re looking to replace it and for various reasons (size, layout of ovens etc) had decided to go with a Stoves Richmond dual fuel electric oven, gas hob model.  Same width, 99.6cm.  We’d checked the existing cooker is on a 40amp circuit (32 amps required), gas connection and electricity point directly behind cooker, separate isolation switch.  The fan is 86cm above the hob, with a minimum of 75cm required.  All good so far.  We’re replacing like for (almost) like, what could be the problem?

The first issue came when, having placed an order, we sent a picture to the installation company as part of their survey.  They identified that the wooden frame around the edge of the alcove was a risk (never mind it’s been there 20 years without an issue, rules change and we have to live with that).  We debated chiselling out the frame to the height of the surrounding tiles as apparently there needs to be a 40cm ‘combustible material free zone’ about the hob and the tiles go up to 50cm above the hob.  We’d then have to plaster / tile the resulting gap.  But we thought that would look pretty naff and the installation company said an electric / induction hob wouldn’t be an issue.  So I thought, hoho, let’s get an induction model instead.  However the sales company said there still needs to be a 40cm zone free of combustible materials over the hob even with induction (this comes from their product manual). 

The next issue is that the current cooker fits snugly into the alcove, and I mean snugly.  I’ve measured it as 100.4cm so there is a 40mm gap at best either side of the cooker.  (And it doesn’t look like a consistently sized gap down the length of the cooker, either the cooker feet have been adjusted so it’s not completely level or the surrounding cupboards aren’t exactly vertical, or a bit of both).  However, again the installation manual says there should be a 10mm gap either side. 

Chipping off a wooden frame around an alcove would be a pain but possible.  Trying to find an extra couple of centimetres on the width of an alcove is not going to be possible without ripping out cupboards which a) we don’t really want to do and b) would probably mean remodelling the whole kitchen and heaven knows how long that would take these days to find anyone who can do the work. 

So my questions are:

• Given the conflicting information I have had about the ‘hot zone’ above the cooker hob, does anyone know for sure whether the requirements just apply to gas hobs with a flame (i.e. would induction be ok with the wooden frame as is) or would we need to remove the frame regardless of whether a gas hob or induction hob was installed? 

• Does anyone know if a cooker can be installed with less than the 10mm gap either side as specified in the product manual. 

And I guess my overall question is, what’s a legal requirement and is anything in the product manual just a ‘guide’.  Or is it a bit of both e.g. the legal requirement is whatever the manufacturer says it is and that will vary from appliance to appliance.

My fear is we can get all sorts of assuring comments by people scheduling the installation over the phone that things are possible, but when the folk turn up on site with the new cooker to install it, they might just take one look and say ‘nah, can’t do it mate’.  

The other alternative if the 10mm gap is an absolute requirement, (considered but rejected) is to buy a 90cm model.  But I don't want to do that as I think the 2 inch gap either side of the existing alcove would look naff, be great for bits of food falling down but too narrow a gap to clean effectively; and I like the existing configuration of my ovens.  The 90cm models have a narrow, tall oven on the right hand side which I'm not keen on).

TIA.

Chickereeeee

We have a Rangmaster, the installation manual for which specifies a 5mm minimum gap to adjacent units. And it is 994mm wide.

TELLIT01

If the manufacturer insists those gaps are required, and you are unable to comply, your only choice really is to go with a different manufacturer.

Sandtree

TELLIT01 said:

If the manufacturer insists those gaps are required, and you are unable to comply, your only choice really is to go with a different manufacturer.

Or accept that any warranty claim etc could be invalidated... probably too expensive an item to consider doing but going elsewhere isn't the only option

FatherTireseus

Thanks for the replies.  Interesting point about the Rangemaster, which might just about meet the width requirements.  A pity I'm not keen on their configuration of a narrower, deeper oven to the right but it's something to consider.

Even as I started to type this reply I got an email from the installation folk backtracking on their assertion they could fit an induction cooker as 'there might be burning to the cupboards'.  And earlier I got a call saying the 10mm gap each side was an absolute requirement and they couldn't install without that.  I suspect the original builder probably got the cooker fitted in the kitchen first then built the cupboards around it.

I do find it slightly ironic that we've had this cooker in place for 20 years and no sign of any issues with burning the wooden frame or surrounding cupboards, but we can't install something to replace like for like.  In the meantime people are not prevented from apparently burning wood in open fires in their houses to save having the central heating on, with much more disastrous consequences....

Anyway, I've reluctantly cancelled the order as between the gap requirements and the wooden frame it doesn't look like we'll be able to install anything as things currently stand. 

BUFF

would fire retardant paint on the wood make any difference?
doesn't help with your width issue, of course.

FatherTireseus

BUFF said:

would fire retardant paint on the wood make any difference?
doesn't help with your width issue, of course.

No-one I spoke to on the sales line or from the installation company mentioned fire retardant paint.  Even if we used it, I guess the problem could be, the installers would turn up and we'd say 'don't worry, we know there is wood there but we've painted it with fire retardant paint' and they'd say 'hmmm, we can't prove that, sorry we're not installing it'.  

I really am a glass half empty sort of person....!

BikingBud

FatherTireseus said:

I am getting conflicting information about the proposed installation of a new range cooker so I thought I would turn to the knowledgeable folk of the forum for views.

20 years ago we bought what was then a new build (small local builder) with a fully fitted kitchen.  The existing range cooker is a Stoves Newhome model, 99.6cm wide.

The next issue is that the current cooker fits snugly into the alcove, and I mean snugly.  I’ve measured it as 100.4cm so there is a 40mm gap at best either side of the cooker.  

The other alternative if the 10mm gap is an absolute requirement, (considered but rejected) is to buy a 90cm model.  But I don't want to do that as I think the 2 inch gap either side of the existing alcove would look naff, 

TIA.

Think you have an error in your quoted measurements; 1004mm-996mm = 8mm = 4mm each side if central, not 40mm.

Stick to using one single unit, mainly mm as interchanging leads to error in conversion.

Bendy_House

FatherTireseus said:

The existing range cooker is a Stoves Newhome model, 99.6cm wide.

We’re looking to replace it and for various reasons (size, layout of ovens etc) had decided to go with a Stoves Richmond dual fuel electric oven, gas hob model.  Same width, 99.6cm. 

They identified that the wooden frame around the edge of the alcove was a risk  there needs to be a 40cm ‘combustible material free zone’ about the hob and the tiles go up to 50cm above the hob. 

The next issue is that the current cooker fits snugly into the alcove, and I mean snugly.  I’ve measured it as 100.4cm so there is a 4mm gap at best either side of the cooker.  (And it doesn’t look like a consistently sized gap down the length of the cooker, either the cooker feet have been adjusted so it’s not completely level or the surrounding cupboards aren’t exactly vertical, or a bit of both).  However, again the installation manual says there should be a 10mm gap either side. 

There are two separate issues here, I think.

The first should be very easily solvable, and might even make that very nice setup even more impressive. That's to replace the timber ogee trim with a plaster version. This will almost certainly be larger, and may need some mild mods depending on what you find, such as cutting its thickness down so it doesn't stick out too far. And I'm thinking that the part-tile on the outside of the current trim would certainly need removing to accommodate the wider width of a plaster moulding. You may - if you are lucky - even be able to find a suitable moulding in a 'stone' finish which, I think, would fit in well with what you have going on there.

Even go all fancy and add a keystone corbel at the top, and well, design 'statement' comes to mind :-)

As rule, I don't like rule pedantry. I have to say, tho', that I'm surprised that not even the paint finish on that moulding has been affected over the years! Have you been mainly using the inner 4 rings just to avoid that risk? (For 'risk' it almost certainly is - just check out the scorch marks on the back tiled area.)

Intumescent paint, as mentioned above, is potentially a good solution, tho' whether the fitter would demand evidence more than the part-used pot and the badly-applied finish, I don't know. This stuff activates at around 200oC, I understand, so would seem to be a good call. And it can be overpainted, I understand, tho' you made need the colour made up specially by the manufacturer, so it's bound to be ~£100 for two barely-used pots of paint! (You could certainly sell-on the Int paint.)

Then there's the required gap betwixt the cooker and units. This is where my pedant's antennae twitch, and I check my own similar cooker - 6mm gaps either side, max. I ask myself, 'is this an issue in practice', and the answer comes back a resounding "extremely unlikely".

What's that gap for? To prevent the units from going up in flames? Well, that just ain't going to happen - not unless the oven itself is already an inferno. Ventilation? Hardly - the oven is well insulated inside, down its sides, and it ain't going to 'overheat', is it? I mean, it's meant to be bludy hot... And, it does have a gap, so will have cooling air going up there to a fair degree.

So, what's that gap for? Almost certainly just to prevent heat damage to the units - ie warping and possible discolouration over time. Your units are fine, and I'd happily stake a bet on it that they'd remain so with the new oven.

How to overcome that potential 'installers' issue, tho'? I'd suggest by calling a local GasSafe and asking them to pop in to quote for swapping the oven for a near-identical model you are about to order. If they comment on the moulding, that's fair enough - tell them you have a solution in hand. If they don't mention the gap, then assume they'll swap it with no concerns.

One other thing I would do with the new cooker, tho', and that's raise it around 30mm or so, so that it's at least level with, or even slightly above worktop level. These cookers almost certainly will have telescopic legs, tho' I had to make up spacers for mine as I deliberately fitted my base units a bit higher than standard.

I have crossed between the poles, to me there's no mystery; https://www.reproplaster.co.uk/collections/panel-mouldings-dado-rails/products/dr2-dado-rail

BUFF

Bendy_House said:

FatherTireseus said:

I have crossed between the poles, to me there's no mystery;

both men of musical taste