Hear me out. Is the price rise good for climate change?

wild666

I'm thinking that each time they review the prices they will increase the price of gas per kWh and lower the price, or increase the electric only slightly so that the price of 1 kWh of gas gets nearer to that of 1 kWh of electric. This would get people into thinking that gas prices are unaffordable so they switch to heat pumps as the main source of heating.
Once the majority switch to heat pumps they will start to increase the price of electric more than they were doing before the majority had heat pumps as their main source of heating.

MattMattMattUK

wrf12345 said:

The industry and Ofgem are undermining Green thinking by inflicting huge increases in standing charges. The govn is not promoting low energy use because it wants the energy companies to get the money they have lost over the last year back. They previously ruined Ebico's business model (no standing charge and single rates for all users), taking out a meaningful segment of the competition. The govn handout in October will probably cover the increased standing charges, encouraging the industry to keep increasing them. There is no competition on rates or s/c's, the whole industry is a national disgrace.

That does not make any sense. The Standing Charge covers network costs, so everyone pays their fair share if they are connected to the network. The incentive to save on energy is because you pay for every unit you use, so every unit you do not use is a saving. The standing charge is highly unlikely to rise by a significant amount in October, certainly not the £400+ that is now being proposed, it might rise by a few pence a day at most. 

There is no competition because of the cap, if competition was functioning unit prices would be considerably higher as suppliers are at best breaking even at the moment. 

Mstty

Over designed not retro fitted ASHP is running £116 more expensive to run our 4 bedroom detached all electric house over our previous 3 bed linked detached gas heated house.

For designed systems (new builds) even at today's capped gas and electricity rates the time is now for putting in ASHP. Come October and depending on how the price increase on gas and electricity it may even tip the balance for retro fitted systems.

[Deleted User]

MattMattMattUK said:

wrf12345 said:

The industry and Ofgem are undermining Green thinking by inflicting huge increases in standing charges. The govn is not promoting low energy use because it wants the energy companies to get the money they have lost over the last year back. They previously ruined Ebico's business model (no standing charge and single rates for all users), taking out a meaningful segment of the competition. The govn handout in October will probably cover the increased standing charges, encouraging the industry to keep increasing them. There is no competition on rates or s/c's, the whole industry is a national disgrace.

That does not make any sense. The Standing Charge covers network costs, so everyone pays their fair share if they are connected to the network. The incentive to save on energy is because you pay for every unit you use, so every unit you do not use is a saving. The standing charge is highly unlikely to rise by a significant amount in October, certainly not the £400+ that is now being proposed, it might rise by a few pence a day at most. 

There is no competition because of the cap, if competition was functioning unit prices would be considerably higher as suppliers are at best breaking even at the moment. 

Ofgem intends to cast competition aside by requiring new suppliers to pay old suppliers when, at a time of falling wholesale prices, a consumer switches to a cheaper tariff. The logic behind this is that if protects a supplier when it is paying for energy that it has already committed to pay for when wholesale energy can be bought more cheaply. Yes it will reduce the potential for supplier failures but it will markedly reduce competition between suppliers. I think that ML has said as much but in a more overt way. Who knows, the Government might have yet another change of mind.

brewerdave

wild666 said:

I'm thinking that each time they review the prices they will increase the price of gas per kWh and lower the price, or increase the electric only slightly so that the price of 1 kWh of gas gets nearer to that of 1 kWh of electric. This would get people into thinking that gas prices are unaffordable so they switch to heat pumps as the main source of heating.
Once the majority switch to heat pumps they will start to increase the price of electric more than they were doing before the majority had heat pumps as their main source of heating.

That would work IF the industry was set up to change 100,000s of homes over per year BUT IT ISN'T !!!

MattMattMattUK

[Deleted User] said:

MattMattMattUK said:

wrf12345 said:

The industry and Ofgem are undermining Green thinking by inflicting huge increases in standing charges. The govn is not promoting low energy use because it wants the energy companies to get the money they have lost over the last year back. They previously ruined Ebico's business model (no standing charge and single rates for all users), taking out a meaningful segment of the competition. The govn handout in October will probably cover the increased standing charges, encouraging the industry to keep increasing them. There is no competition on rates or s/c's, the whole industry is a national disgrace.

That does not make any sense. The Standing Charge covers network costs, so everyone pays their fair share if they are connected to the network. The incentive to save on energy is because you pay for every unit you use, so every unit you do not use is a saving. The standing charge is highly unlikely to rise by a significant amount in October, certainly not the £400+ that is now being proposed, it might rise by a few pence a day at most. 

There is no competition because of the cap, if competition was functioning unit prices would be considerably higher as suppliers are at best breaking even at the moment. 

Ofgem intends to cast competition aside by requiring new suppliers to pay old suppliers when, at a time of falling wholesale prices, a consumer switches to a cheaper tariff. The logic behind this is that if protects a supplier when it is paying for energy that it has already committed to pay for when wholesale energy can be bought more cheaply. Yes it will reduce the potential for supplier failures but it will markedly reduce competition between suppliers. I think that ML has said as much but in a more overt way. Who knows, the Government might have yet another change of mind.

I had seen that proposal floated, but it did not seem to have any real traction and yes I agree it would be an idiotic idea. Personally my plan is to keep my businesses recovery on track, move from my flat to a house and install solar, batteries and either an ASHP, or ideally a GSHP and need little if any energy from the grid. Hopefully I can do that ahead of the the UK energy market going totally insane. 

Mstty

MattMattMattUK said:

Dolor said:

MattMattMattUK said:

wrf12345 said:

The industry and Ofgem are undermining Green thinking by inflicting huge increases in standing charges. The govn is not promoting low energy use because it wants the energy companies to get the money they have lost over the last year back. They previously ruined Ebico's business model (no standing charge and single rates for all users), taking out a meaningful segment of the competition. The govn handout in October will probably cover the increased standing charges, encouraging the industry to keep increasing them. There is no competition on rates or s/c's, the whole industry is a national disgrace.

That does not make any sense. The Standing Charge covers network costs, so everyone pays their fair share if they are connected to the network. The incentive to save on energy is because you pay for every unit you use, so every unit you do not use is a saving. The standing charge is highly unlikely to rise by a significant amount in October, certainly not the £400+ that is now being proposed, it might rise by a few pence a day at most. 

There is no competition because of the cap, if competition was functioning unit prices would be considerably higher as suppliers are at best breaking even at the moment. 

Ofgem intends to cast competition aside by requiring new suppliers to pay old suppliers when, at a time of falling wholesale prices, a consumer switches to a cheaper tariff. The logic behind this is that if protects a supplier when it is paying for energy that it has already committed to pay for when wholesale energy can be bought more cheaply. Yes it will reduce the potential for supplier failures but it will markedly reduce competition between suppliers. I think that ML has said as much but in a more overt way. Who knows, the Government might have yet another change of mind.

I had seen that proposal floated, but it did not seem to have any real traction and yes I agree it would be an idiotic idea. Personally my plan is to keep my businesses recovery on track, move from my flat to a house and install solar, batteries and either an ASHP, or ideally a GSHP and need little if any energy from the grid. Hopefully I can do that ahead of the the UK energy market going totally insane. 

The earliest appointment we can get from a long standing reputable local solar panel/battery company is in 3 months time and that's just the survey. But worth it to hopefully get something in the spring summer next year. 

We have to find the money it's a no brainer with these types of prices.

brewerdave

MattMattMattUK said:

[Deleted User] said:

MattMattMattUK said:

wrf12345 said:

The industry and Ofgem are undermining Green thinking by inflicting huge increases in standing charges. The govn is not promoting low energy use because it wants the energy companies to get the money they have lost over the last year back. They previously ruined Ebico's business model (no standing charge and single rates for all users), taking out a meaningful segment of the competition. The govn handout in October will probably cover the increased standing charges, encouraging the industry to keep increasing them. There is no competition on rates or s/c's, the whole industry is a national disgrace.

That does not make any sense. The Standing Charge covers network costs, so everyone pays their fair share if they are connected to the network. The incentive to save on energy is because you pay for every unit you use, so every unit you do not use is a saving. The standing charge is highly unlikely to rise by a significant amount in October, certainly not the £400+ that is now being proposed, it might rise by a few pence a day at most. 

There is no competition because of the cap, if competition was functioning unit prices would be considerably higher as suppliers are at best breaking even at the moment. 

Ofgem intends to cast competition aside by requiring new suppliers to pay old suppliers when, at a time of falling wholesale prices, a consumer switches to a cheaper tariff. The logic behind this is that if protects a supplier when it is paying for energy that it has already committed to pay for when wholesale energy can be bought more cheaply. Yes it will reduce the potential for supplier failures but it will markedly reduce competition between suppliers. I think that ML has said as much but in a more overt way. Who knows, the Government might have yet another change of mind.

I had seen that proposal floated, but it did not seem to have any real traction and yes I agree it would be an idiotic idea. Personally my plan is to keep my businesses recovery on track, move from my flat to a house and install solar, batteries and either an ASHP, or ideally a GSHP and need little if any energy from the grid. Hopefully I can do that ahead of the the UK energy market going totally insane. 

Good idea IF you have the capital AND you can find a reliable firm(s) to install. Round my neck of the woods in South Wales, there is already a lack of good installers for any energy "efficiency" measures - some firms won't even quote any more for panel installs - and what is going to happen ? Yes ,you've guessed it - the rise of the cowboy firms and the inevitable botched or non existent installations of ASHPs ,panels etc. I'm already getting bombarded with insulation "survey" scams on the home phoneline !!!

MattMattMattUK

Mstty said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Dolor said:

MattMattMattUK said:

wrf12345 said:

The industry and Ofgem are undermining Green thinking by inflicting huge increases in standing charges. The govn is not promoting low energy use because it wants the energy companies to get the money they have lost over the last year back. They previously ruined Ebico's business model (no standing charge and single rates for all users), taking out a meaningful segment of the competition. The govn handout in October will probably cover the increased standing charges, encouraging the industry to keep increasing them. There is no competition on rates or s/c's, the whole industry is a national disgrace.

That does not make any sense. The Standing Charge covers network costs, so everyone pays their fair share if they are connected to the network. The incentive to save on energy is because you pay for every unit you use, so every unit you do not use is a saving. The standing charge is highly unlikely to rise by a significant amount in October, certainly not the £400+ that is now being proposed, it might rise by a few pence a day at most. 

There is no competition because of the cap, if competition was functioning unit prices would be considerably higher as suppliers are at best breaking even at the moment. 

Ofgem intends to cast competition aside by requiring new suppliers to pay old suppliers when, at a time of falling wholesale prices, a consumer switches to a cheaper tariff. The logic behind this is that if protects a supplier when it is paying for energy that it has already committed to pay for when wholesale energy can be bought more cheaply. Yes it will reduce the potential for supplier failures but it will markedly reduce competition between suppliers. I think that ML has said as much but in a more overt way. Who knows, the Government might have yet another change of mind.

I had seen that proposal floated, but it did not seem to have any real traction and yes I agree it would be an idiotic idea. Personally my plan is to keep my businesses recovery on track, move from my flat to a house and install solar, batteries and either an ASHP, or ideally a GSHP and need little if any energy from the grid. Hopefully I can do that ahead of the the UK energy market going totally insane. 

The earliest appointment we can get from a long standing reputable local solar panel/battery company is in 3 months time and that's just the survey. But worth it to hopefully get something in the spring summer next year. 

We have to find the money it's a no brainer with these types of prices.

It is going to be next year before my earnings have properly recovered anyway so I am not too worried about the three month lead time when I get there. I will be factoring in the cost when it comes to buying, but I do not expect to be maximising my borrowing when I buy so I hope that puts me in a favourable situation. 

MattMattMattUK

brewerdave said:

MattMattMattUK said:

[Deleted User] said:

MattMattMattUK said:

wrf12345 said:

The industry and Ofgem are undermining Green thinking by inflicting huge increases in standing charges. The govn is not promoting low energy use because it wants the energy companies to get the money they have lost over the last year back. They previously ruined Ebico's business model (no standing charge and single rates for all users), taking out a meaningful segment of the competition. The govn handout in October will probably cover the increased standing charges, encouraging the industry to keep increasing them. There is no competition on rates or s/c's, the whole industry is a national disgrace.

That does not make any sense. The Standing Charge covers network costs, so everyone pays their fair share if they are connected to the network. The incentive to save on energy is because you pay for every unit you use, so every unit you do not use is a saving. The standing charge is highly unlikely to rise by a significant amount in October, certainly not the £400+ that is now being proposed, it might rise by a few pence a day at most. 

There is no competition because of the cap, if competition was functioning unit prices would be considerably higher as suppliers are at best breaking even at the moment. 

Ofgem intends to cast competition aside by requiring new suppliers to pay old suppliers when, at a time of falling wholesale prices, a consumer switches to a cheaper tariff. The logic behind this is that if protects a supplier when it is paying for energy that it has already committed to pay for when wholesale energy can be bought more cheaply. Yes it will reduce the potential for supplier failures but it will markedly reduce competition between suppliers. I think that ML has said as much but in a more overt way. Who knows, the Government might have yet another change of mind.

I had seen that proposal floated, but it did not seem to have any real traction and yes I agree it would be an idiotic idea. Personally my plan is to keep my businesses recovery on track, move from my flat to a house and install solar, batteries and either an ASHP, or ideally a GSHP and need little if any energy from the grid. Hopefully I can do that ahead of the the UK energy market going totally insane. 

Good idea IF you have the capital AND you can find a reliable firm(s) to install. Round my neck of the woods in South Wales, there is already a lack of good installers for any energy "efficiency" measures - some firms won't even quote any more for panel installs - and what is going to happen ? Yes ,you've guessed it - the rise of the cowboy firms and the inevitable botched or non existent installations of ASHPs ,panels etc. I'm already getting bombarded with insulation "survey" scams on the home phoneline !!!

Capital will not be a problem when it comes to that point late 23 or early 24.

There is a reasonable number of installers around here (Home Counties) and I know a couple of good suppliers, both Tesla certified as well so I can go for Powerwalls. There does seem to be a lot of cowboys around at the moment, they do seem somewhat identifiable by the kit that they offer to install as well though, the dodgy ones do not tend to offer the higher end/named brand panels etc.