Unable to pay at car park

BigBaldJohn

Hi,
I have recently received a Parking Charge Notice from Parkingeye for being in a car park at Ross-on-Wye for 11 minutes.
I don't dispute this. However I was unable to pay using the app they require, it simply would not connect despite working on previous occasions at other sites. I did not have cash to pay in that way.
After spending an amount of time trying to get the app to work, we decided to give up and left, precisely to avoid parking without paying. I vaguely recall there was a phone number mentioned on the posters but I decided I would not pay in that way, I'd tried enough at that point.
Parkingeye have refused my appeal, unsurprisingly, and say I could appeal to POPLA. Their rejection says I did not offer sufficient evidence. I wonder what evidence could possibly exist that something didn't happen?
Is it worth appealing to POPLA in this case? There isn't any real evidence that I could present (nor can there be, in my opinion) and I wonder who would legitimately park for all of 11 minutes.
Any advice gratefully received.
Kind regards
John

Coupon-mad

Is there any evidence you hold, that you then went and paid to park elsewhere?  POPLA like that.

Do you have dashcam footage of the time you arrived and left? Or Google location enabled on your phone that shows you weren't there 11 mins?

BigBaldJohn

I didn't think to keep the receipt from the next place but I do have a journey log from the car that shows we went to another tourist attraction. The log almost agrees with the times they say (11:41 and 11:51).

I don't dispute I was there, and only for 10 minutes by my log.

I'm all for fighting the injustice of it but I think any appeal I make won't have many hard facts, mostly emotive common-sense opinions.

Fact: I entered the car park
Fact: The app did not work, I couldn't pay.
Fact: I left the car park 11 (or 10) minutes later.

Emotives:
Are you technically 'parked' while fighting the payment machines/apps?
Isn't there a grace period of at least 10 mins anyway?
Who would park for just 11 minutes?
How can I prove that the app didn't work? You can't prove a negative. Would they have to prove it was working?
Why is the charge valid if I was unable (not unwilling) to pay?

Thanks for your input, I appreciate the time you take to help out.

Cheers
John

Umkomaas

Are you technically 'parked' while fighting the payment machines/apps?

Possibly ....

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2019/854.html

Would they have to prove it was working?

You put them to strict proof in your POPLA appeal. 

Why is the charge valid if I was unable (not unwilling) to pay?

No one here is saying it's valid, only a Judge, ultimately can confirm that. 

In your appeal to PE, did you identify who the driver was?  It could be important if the PE Notice to Keeper fails to meet the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) - a 'Golden Ticket'. Please see the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, first post, where it shows you an example for you to check yourself. 

The NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, third post, provides all the guidance for developing a strong POPLA appeal. 

Have you complained to the landowner about the impossible position you were placed in and ask that they intervene to get the PCN cancelled. Do that urgently, because once it's gone to POPLA, PE refuse to cancel even if the landowner instructs them to do so. 

D_P_Dance

Of course you should appeal.  Also complain to Trading Standards and your MP.,

Half_way

Who's car park was this?

BigBaldJohn

Half_way said:

Who's car park was this?

Wye Valley Visitor Centre, Ross-on-Wye.

BigBaldJohn

D_P_Dance said:

Of course you should appeal.  Also complain to Trading Standards and your MP.,

Fair enough, and I'm willing to go for it if there's a reasonable chance of success. But it'll cost me £100 if I lose, or £60 if I cave in now.

fisherjim

That reduction is a bribe to make you pay up and shut up with the least cost to them.

BigBaldJohn

Umkomaas said:

Are you technically 'parked' while fighting the payment machines/apps?

Possibly ....
(link deleted)

Would they have to prove it was working?

You put them to strict proof in your POPLA appeal. 

Why is the charge valid if I was unable (not unwilling) to pay?

No one here is saying it's valid, only a Judge, ultimately can confirm that. 

In your appeal to PE, did you identify who the driver was?  It could be important if the PE Notice to Keeper fails to meet the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) - a 'Golden Ticket'. Please see the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, first post, where it shows you an example for you to check yourself. 

The NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, third post, provides all the guidance for developing a strong POPLA appeal. 

Have you complained to the landowner about the impossible position you were placed in and ask that they intervene to get the PCN cancelled. Do that urgently, because once it's gone to POPLA, PE refuse to cancel even if the landowner instructs them to do so. 

I didn't admit to being the driver as far as I recall, but I didn't explicitly reply as the keeper either. I didn't think to keep a transcript of the appeal I sent (via their web page) and of course it's disappeared now. I wish I'd found this site before I made the PE appeal.

I shall send the retailer (a butterfly zoo) a stiff complaint, maybe they'll help. Doesn't look hopeful though, their web site implies the matter is between me and PE and they won't intervene. Maybe they get a lot of aggro with parking to take a position like that. I'll give it a go though.

Thanks for the advice.

Trainerman

It sounds like ANPR operated. If so, you were in the car park for (maybe) eleven minutes. You were not necessarily parked. So it seems to me that you have grace period, ANPR camera clocks not synchronised to work with,  AND you can prove that , as a consequence, you went elsewhere. That, btw , is what the parking companies say you should do, if you cannot pay, go elsewhere.

PoPla are useless so do not expect much there, but I really believe that the PPC would struggle with this one in front of a Judge