Chimney Breast Support

mickeyg14

I have a bit of an issue regarding chimneys in a 1930s semi.

My neighbours are extending and want to remove the chimney breast in their front rooms. I received a party wall notice which was the first notification.  

The previous owners of my house (who lived their since the 60s and the sale was through his estate) had previously removed the front ground floor and first floor chimney breasts at the back rooms.  I've had to get someone to go in my attic and investigate.  They discovered the chimney breast in my attic is supported by wooden  beams on the floor of the attic/roof structure.  

I've passed on my concerns to my neighbours structural engineer and builder but they are not interested in getting involved.  They haven't got building control approval yet but want to start the chimney removal in 2 months time.  There is a shared stack from which the chimney breasts arch down to the front and back rooms of the house down the party wall.  They will be putting a steel beam across the walls perpendicular to the chimney in their attic.

Do I go to a structural engineer or builder first for advice?  Structural engineers seem very busy.  I did manage to speak to one and they felt as the house is still standing, the chimney is tied in to the party wall, there isn't much to worry about.  Is a party wall surveyor going to be useful here or is the condition of my chimney and the risk outside their remit? 

I am guessing that ideally gallows brackets (if still allowed) or steel support may be required.  As an alternative, I have suggested to my neighbours removing the stack and chimney breasts to avoid issues and share costs.  They are yet to respond.

Slightly concerned about my neighbours just cracking on and there being damage or risk.  Would building control take into account the situation with my chimney whilst considering my neighbours plans.

Clearly I didn't get a structural survey done and I'm now feeling pretty stupid.  There was no documentation with the house.  My survey picked up the chimneys had been removed but didn't look at the support.

Any help/suggestions would be greatly received.

TELLIT01

The fact that your chimney is not adequately supported is of no concern or interest to your neighbour, as you are aware.  The suggestion to remove both yours and your neighbours completely and share the costs would seem to be a sensible one.

Section62

mickeyg14 said:

Is a party wall surveyor going to be useful here or is the condition of my chimney and the risk outside their remit? 

I think the short answer to the BiB is 'Yes'.

Chimney breasts may be providing lateral support to the party wall.  The party wall may still have adequate support if the breasts are only removed on one side.  Removing the breasts on the second side could result in the wall having insufficient lateral support - particularly if rooms have been knocked through on either side.

The neighbour's SE and builder are in the wrong here.  They should be very much interested in the state of the chimney breasts on your side - the SE cannot do a proper structural assessment if they don't take this into account.

A PWS would be the right professional to help you make sure the neighbour's SE and builder are doing what they should be doing.

It would also be worth both you and your neighbour considering whether removing the whole of the remaining chimney above roof level makes sense - this may resolve the issue with support of the chimney on your side and may lessen the structural issues with the party wall.  You'd need to consider the situation with planning and building control yourself, and definitely don't just take the neighbour's word that no planning or BC approval is required.

Section62

TELLIT01 said:

The fact that your chimney is not adequately supported is of no concern or interest to your neighbour, as you are aware.

I disagree.  The chimney is part of a shared structure.  The possible lack of support on one side could make work on the neighbour's side dangerous and/or cause a collapse.

We and the OP don't know whether the support provided for the chimney stack was adequate at the time the work was carried out.

GDB2222

I would definitely insist on a PWA surveyor. 

What is more, if you feel that you are not being listened to, you are perfectly fine to appoint your own surveyor, and your neighbour needs to appoint his own.  Both surveyors have to be paid for by your neighbour.

 You could make the point to your neighbour that it would be cheaper to have a single PWA surveyor, acting for both of you, but only if he listens carefully to your concerns.