Probate and selling a property that is Tenancy in Common

Marcon

greg2022 said:

shiraz99 said:

JGB1955 said:

But, unless your stepmother had made a will, the rules of intestacy come into play.... don't they?

^This. Unless there was a will to determine where step mum's distinct share would be administered it would come under the rules of intestacy and end up with your Dad anyway.

Due to the Tenancy in Common, I hadn't actually considered that Intestacy rules could be applied to my Step Mum's estate before my Dad died because Probate for her had not been completed.

If that is correct and my Dad effectively inherited my Step Mum's estate (I'm still not convinced!) how would I overcome the restriction specified in the Title Register which specifies both as Proprietors and:
RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court.

Why are you not convinced? Maybe try this if you are still hesitant and it will reassure you: https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will

Also includes a link about pecking order for applying for Letters of Administration.

Be aware that a deed of variation would need to be in respect of your father - it's too late (i.e. more than 2 years) in respect of your stepmother's estate.

greg2022

It seems strange that my step brother will need to apply for Letters of Administration (LoA) for my step mum, knowing the the Estate passes to my Dad, for whom I have already applied for LoA - that's life!

I will be seeing my step brother on Wednesday to discuss our next steps!  It will almost certainly involve a Deed of Variation in respect of my Dad.

Thanks to all for the advice. 

Flugelhorn

greg2022 said:

It seems strange that my step brother will need to apply for Letters of Administration (LoA) for my step mum, knowing the the Estate passes to my Dad, for whom I have already applied for LoA - that's life!

I will be seeing my step brother on Wednesday to discuss our next steps!  It will almost certainly involve a Deed of Variation in respect of my Dad.

Thanks to all for the advice. 

Hope discussions get sorted out OK, am sure in the long term DoV is the answer

just thinking (out loud - someone here will know the answer) - do you have to make any amendments to the LOA application if you put half the value of the house on it instead of the whole value?

shiraz99

Flugelhorn said:

greg2022 said:

shiraz99 said:

JGB1955 said:

But, unless your stepmother had made a will, the rules of intestacy come into play.... don't they?

^This. Unless there was a will to determine where step mum's distinct share would be administered it would come under the rules of intestacy and end up with your Dad anyway.

Due to the Tenancy in Common, I hadn't actually considered that Intestacy rules could be applied to my Step Mum's estate before my Dad died because Probate for her had not been completed.

If that is correct and my Dad effectively inherited my Step Mum's estate (I'm still not convinced!) how would I overcome the restriction specified in the Title Register which specifies both as Proprietors and:
RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court.

that will be sortable by the LR - ask them as per the link above. 

Intestacy means that the first person to inherit is the surviving spouse

have to say this puts you in a tricky situation, sounds like your dad and stepmum intended to leave their halves to their repective children, however in not making wills the whole of the house has come to your father then to you. If he had died first it would have gone to step mum then to her children and grandchildren per stirpes.

is stepmum's son aware of this? would you want to do a deed of variation for them to have some of the proceeds of the house? 
 

Yes, pretty pointless severing the joint tenancy if you don't then go on to specify how you're going to leave your assets via a will.

JGB1955

I DO wonder if, at the time of severing the joint tenancy, wills were drawn up - it would make no sense otherwise.....  We did both concurrently.  I don't know if it's possible (from the Land Registry records) to find out who registered the restriction on the title, but, if it was a solicitor ....maybe they hold the wills as well????

shiraz99

JGB1955 said:

I DO wonder if, at the time of severing the joint tenancy, wills were drawn up - it would make no sense otherwise.....

True, most couple would be doing both at the same time.

greg2022

shiraz99 said:

JGB1955 said:

I DO wonder if, at the time of severing the joint tenancy, wills were drawn up - it would make no sense otherwise.....

True, most couple would be doing both at the same time.

I have draft copies of 2 wills that were drawn up in 2008 but never signed, and are therefore invalid.  The beneficiaries mentioned are also a bit out of date - a lot has changed since then!  As mentioned at the beginning a formal will search did not find a valid, registered will for my Dad.

JGB1955

greg2022 said:

shiraz99 said:

JGB1955 said:

I DO wonder if, at the time of severing the joint tenancy, wills were drawn up - it would make no sense otherwise.....

True, most couple would be doing both at the same time.

I have draft copies of 2 wills that were drawn up in 2008 but never signed, and are therefore invalid.  The beneficiaries mentioned are also a bit out of date - a lot has changed since then!  As mentioned at the beginning a formal will search did not find a valid, registered will for my Dad.

But... if one were found for your stepmother it would change everything!....

greg2022

One final question (I hope!).  If I can prove that my step mum died intestate by completing another formal will search through Certainty Wills, could my step brother avoid the requirement to apply for Letters of Administration for her?  Because, as per previous comments, this means that her Estate would be deemed to automatically pass to my Dad (as per Joint Tenancy).  

Hopefully the Title Register restriction regarding Tenants in Common could then be removed, allowing the property to be sold after being granted LoA for my Dad.

I can then apply for a Deed of Variation to distribute the combined Estate (Dad and Step Mum) as per my original post, i.e. me (50%), my step brother (25%), my step mum's grandchildren (12.5% each).

If that is the case, maybe it won't be too difficult after all!

Thanks again. 

poppystar

You say the wills you found weren’t signed. We’re they drawn up by a solicitor? If so, it might be that parents had the draft copy but the solicitor kept the original so contacting the solicitor would be a good step. I’m not sure all wills, particularly dating back to 2008, would actually have been registered and able to be found by Certainty.