Paid for a space still got PCN? Do I pay again?

Ab93

Hi all hoping some of you can help me 

Between me and my flat mate we get one permanent permit to park anywhere and one visitors permit for the bays outside our flat as part of renting the flat. He was using the permanent one and I used the visitors permit in a visitors bay. You can park there for up to 4 hours for free and pay if you want longer. I paid for 24 hours and displayed the ticket alongside the permit, however I failed to realise the permit was out of date it was the only one I could find. 

I am now being chased for £170.

When I received the initial PCN I sent an email saying I dispute the charge and do not accept liability nor will be disclosing the identity of the driver. This is the only contact and statement I have made on my part so far.

I have ignored all following letters from various debt collection companies. I’ve had about 4 or 5 ‘last chance before court action’ letters which makes me think if they really could take me to court they should of done it after the first letter.

Now I understand my genuine mistake won’t count for much in court if it goes that far, however, I was always under the impression it was down to the private company, in this case secureaspace, to prove hardship. I paid for the bay I parked in, I am a resident, I displayed the relevant permit for the correct bay albeit expired, I didn’t stay the whole duration, and also in the pictures taken of my car parked the bays next to me are free, which in my opinion shows that I have not caused any hardship. I’ve been adamant I’m not paying and I’ve been willing to fight it until the end but I really can’t risk a CCJ with wanting to get a mortgage soon. Any advice welcome. Been given until 24th may to ‘settle’. In a time where people are struggling to pay their energy bills and keep the heating on and food in the fridge can a court really expect and enforce a £170 fine for parking in a space I am entitled to and even paid for!?

Original PCN from secureaspace Nov 21

Passed onto Parkingcsl

Passed onto DRP

Latest letter from CST Law - (Unpaid debt - reminder notice stage)

Edit: I have also just read here that fines will be capped at £50 and hiking of charges from debt collectors will be banned as of February? Could it at least be reduced to £50 if I really don’t have a leg to stand on? 

Thanks 

Fruitcake

It is not a fine.

Parking charges won't be capped until the mandatory CoP and independent appeals service is up and running, expected to be sometime next year.

What does your lease/tenancy/property rental agreement say about parking, parking companies, parking charges, paying parking charges, and court? What it doesn't say is just as important, and your lease/etcetera will have primacy of contract over anything an unregulated private parking company has to say.

What happened when you complained to your landowner?

Have you complained to your MP yet?

Have you read the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES yet that will answer most of your questions?

There is no chance you will get a CCJ as long as you follow the advice on this forum, even if the PPC takes you to court and you lose. 

Debt collectors are powerless and cannot take you to court. You are right to ignore them. Do not ignore the PPC, especially if they try a court claim.

Jenni_D

Per your last point ... the capping of charges won't start until the new appeals body is in place, so the new code won't be formally enacted until 2023. However the ministerial foreword to the new code is persuasive in current cases for getting the fake debt recovery charges removed, as it shows what the government thinks and why the new code was brought about.

Ab93

Fruitcake said:

It is not a fine.

Parking charges won't be capped until the mandatory CoP and independent appeals service is up and running, expected to be sometime next year.

What does your lease/tenancy/property rental agreement say about parking, parking companies, parking charges, paying parking charges, and court? What it doesn't say is just as important, and your lease/etcetera will have primacy of contract over anything an unregulated private parking company has to say.

What happened when you complained to your landowner?

Have you complained to your MP yet?

Have you read the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES yet that will answer most of your questions?

There is no chance you will get a CCJ as long as you follow the advice on this forum, even if the PPC takes you to court and you lose. 

Debt collectors are powerless and cannot take you to court. You are right to ignore them. Do not ignore the PPC, especially if they try a court claim.

Thank you for your reply

I cannot find anything in writing regarding the parking situation however every flat is entitled to the 2 mentioned permits as we have to change them every year.
The signage states you must display your paid ticket with registration alongside a valid permit.

I have not complained to the landowner other than saying that I dispute the charge and will not disclose identity of driver etc. And I don’t think that was a complaint to the landowner I think it was to the parking company? If I were to contact them now would it not be admitting liability? 

I have not complained to my MP 

I have read through the thread but there are many different stages and circumstances and I apologise for posting here just wanted to know what I need to do now as I don’t have long until the deadline. Also wanted to add the letter I received yesterday (18th) giving me until the 24th to settle is dated the 10th so already lost 8 days. 

The parking company is secure a space. They are not the landowner are they? And just to clarify I should continue to ignore letters from debt collection firms but not ignore anything from secure a space? It would appear these various firms have ‘bought’ the in my opinion non existent debt. 

Thanks again and sorry for being thick just maybe panicking lol 

D_P_Dance

Read these

https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/residential-letting-questions/1053920-private-parking-companies

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

other "own space" threads, google "primacy of contract", and complain to your MP.

Ab93

Thank you for your replies 

Also I believe we are entitled to permits with the flat not necessarily parking spaces or would it be seen as if we are entitled to permits then we are therefore entitled to parking? I’m not sure I don’t have the documents. 

Could somebody be so kind as to advise me of what to do next?
What would you suggest I write to my MP? I’ve never really considered it as I suppose I’ve never really thought it would warrant his time or help? 

Am I safe to just continue ignoring letters as they come? When should I be worried? 

Should I contact secure a space or is it too late for that? And if I did would I be basically admitting fault? 

Thanks 

Umkomaas

Could somebody be so kind as to advise me of what to do next?

In terms of the PCN itself, there's nothing you can do directly with either the parking firm or their debt collectors, there's no appeal avenue any longer open to you (not that you've missed much as all initial appeals are routinely turned down. 

You can obviously get on with complaining to the landowner and your MP to see if they can assist, but your next possible element to deal with - if it ever happens - will be a Letter Before Claim or a formal court claim from the Northampton CCBC. 

Come back on this thread should you receive either. 

Jenni_D

And in the meantime, dig out a copy of the lease / tenancy agreement and look at what the precise wordings are of the various terms.

Ab93

So I don’t have anything to worry about then? 

Even if they invite me to court? If it were to get to that who would it be that invited me if debt collectors don’t have the power? 

And even if I got taken to court and lost then a CCJ is out of the question? Forgive me if this is a silly question but if I get a letter from Northampton is that where I’d have to appear? 

What could I write to my MP any suggestions or templates etc. 

Thanks again 

Jenni_D

The only entity that can raise a court claim (and have any chance) is the parking company, or the legal company that they may employ (e.g. Gladstones, DCB Legal). A debt collector cannot raise a court claim as the alleged debt isn't theirs.

Coupon-mad

just wanted to know what I need to do now as I don’t have long until the deadline.

There isn't a deadline.  They are gaslighting you. 

You only have a CST letter.  I am pretty sure we have a CST letters group thread, laughing at that letter chain.  Do some forum searches and read more threads at the exact same stage as you. 

Nothing to worry about.  Come back if you get a court claim.

Also wanted to add the letter I received yesterday (18th) giving me until the 24th to settle is dated the 10th so already lost 8 days. 

Doesn't matter...

...as long as the PPC doesn't have (had) two possible addresses for you?  That would be the only action to take, if the first letters went to an old address then CST or another DRA traced you, meaning there are two addresses for them to choose from - you can't leave that situation ignored, if so.

Have you done a SAR to get all the letters and photos, and complained to the Managing Agents about this utter harassment by an ex-clamper firm?