Public combined sewer running under living room (1905 house) and no build over agreement

beb4

Hi all

So, I'm nearly at the point of exchange on the house I'm buying. There's been a lot of bumps along the way - damp surveys, structural engineer checks etc. and now I've just received the final report from the solicitors and it mentions that there's a public sewer running under the house but that there's no build over agreement for it. The seller's solicitor is unwilling to pay for indemnity insurance either so I'd have to cover that if I choose to go ahead.

My concerns are...
1. If I get the indemnity insurance I believe it becomes null & void should the council or water company ever find out that there's no build over agreement? So I'm assuming then all repairs etc. would be on me to pay up for

2. The pipe runs right under the side of the house (assuming also alongside the neighbour's) and its the pipe that runs the sewage from all the houses down under the road (everyone else's pipes are across their garden)

3. If it were to crack/burst then I believe I'd have a major problem on my hands with potential sewage flooding my house/garden - is that right?

4. This could be a huge re-sale issue (the buyers before me dropped out at this stage and I'm wondering if this is why)

My solicitor has said "It is not uncommon for properties to be built over or within 3 metres of a sewer and there be no build over agreement, most lenders are happy to proceed with an indemnity instead of the build over agreement. As the property was originally constructed over the sewer it’s likely the developer would have taken this into account and the water company would have been made aware at the time. I would strongly suggest speaking to the water authority to see generally what their stance is in relation to drains under properties and how they go about accessing these if the property has been built over one." (I am awaiting a reply from the water company)

The issue is that I don't know where the access to the pipe is, whether its under the house or not. The surveyor said they could only get limited access via an inspection chamber in the back garden and that most of the drainage system is hidden from view. Would the water company be able to access via that inspection chamber should they need to do any work? I assume not. 

Thanks in advance!

TheJP

If the house was built in 1905 and has had no building modification then i very highly doubt it needs a build over agreement. Build over agreements didn't exist in 1905.

Section62

beb4 said:

Hi all

So, I'm nearly at the point of exchange on the house I'm buying. There's been a lot of bumps along the way - damp surveys, structural engineer checks etc. and now I've just received the final report from the solicitors and it mentions that there's a public sewer running under the house but that there's no build over agreement for it. The seller's solicitor is unwilling to pay for indemnity insurance either so I'd have to cover that if I choose to go ahead.

My concerns are...
1. If I get the indemnity insurance I believe it becomes null & void should the council or water company ever find out that there's no build over agreement? So I'm assuming then all repairs etc. would be on me to pay up for

2. The pipe runs right under the side of the house (assuming also alongside the neighbour's) and its the pipe that runs the sewage from all the houses down under the road (everyone else's pipes are across their garden)

3. If it were to crack/burst then I believe I'd have a major problem on my hands with potential sewage flooding my house/garden - is that right?

4. This could be a huge re-sale issue (the buyers before me dropped out at this stage and I'm wondering if this is why)

My solicitor has said "It is not uncommon for properties to be built over or within 3 metres of a sewer and there be no build over agreement, most lenders are happy to proceed with an indemnity instead of the build over agreement. As the property was originally constructed over the sewer it’s likely the developer would have taken this into account and the water company would have been made aware at the time. I would strongly suggest speaking to the water authority to see generally what their stance is in relation to drains under properties and how they go about accessing these if the property has been built over one." (I am awaiting a reply from the water company)

The issue is that I don't know where the access to the pipe is, whether its under the house or not. The surveyor said they could only get limited access via an inspection chamber in the back garden and that most of the drainage system is hidden from view. Would the water company be able to access via that inspection chamber should they need to do any work? I assume not. 

Thanks in advance!

Can you clarify if it is only the original house built over the sewer... i.e. no extension or anything similar added later.

If the house was built in 1905 - and the pipe was a public sewer at that time - then the owner (the local authority, not a water company) would have been aware.

If it wasn't a public sewer at the time the house was constructed, then (assuming the pipe serves more than one property) it would have become one in 1936 ("Section 24"), the owner (still the local authority) had to take sewers as they existed at the time, there was no need for retrospective consent for building over them.

Access to Section24 sewers is a nightmare.  The water company may be able to do all they need to do from the existing chamber, but if not would dig either in the road/front garden or in the rear garden to obtain better access.  Assuming the pipe run under the house is straight with no intermediate chambers it is very unlikely they will ever need to do work within the house.

You won't be liable for repairs/maintenance unless there have been extensions built after 1936.

Based on your comments, your solicitor's knowledge of this area of the law isn't particularly good.

aoleks

if it is indeed under the living room and the house was built in 1905, there can't be any talk of a build over agreement.

Section62

TheJP said:

Build over agreements didn't exist in 1905.

They did exist in 1905, because public sewers existed at that time and sometimes people wanted to build over them.

aoleks

maybe, but what is nowadays considered a public sewer might have been a private one prior to 2011, hence you were allowed to build on top of it.

Section62

aoleks said:

maybe, but what is nowadays considered a public sewer might have been a private one prior to 2011, hence you were allowed to build on top of it.

None of which means build over agreements didn't exist in 1905.

What matters is the OP needs to establish whether the sewer was a public sewer in 1905, or whether it became one due to (for example) S24. Hence the point made in my post about clarifying which case applies.

beb4

Thank you everyone! I believe it was a public sewer back in 1905 but need to check that for sure. The solicitor seemed to flag it as an issue that there was no buildover agreement which makes me think there SHOULD be one. I've contacted the water company to ask how they'd access the pipe (without mentioning the lack of buildover agreement) and am waiting for them to come back to me. There's a manhole at the back of the house but its a dummy one so not usable, I think there may be a private one too so whether they could go through those I don't know. 

beb4

Section62 said:

beb4 said:

Hi all

So, I'm nearly at the point of exchange on the house I'm buying. There's been a lot of bumps along the way - damp surveys, structural engineer checks etc. and now I've just received the final report from the solicitors and it mentions that there's a public sewer running under the house but that there's no build over agreement for it. The seller's solicitor is unwilling to pay for indemnity insurance either so I'd have to cover that if I choose to go ahead.

My concerns are...
1. If I get the indemnity insurance I believe it becomes null & void should the council or water company ever find out that there's no build over agreement? So I'm assuming then all repairs etc. would be on me to pay up for

2. The pipe runs right under the side of the house (assuming also alongside the neighbour's) and its the pipe that runs the sewage from all the houses down under the road (everyone else's pipes are across their garden)

3. If it were to crack/burst then I believe I'd have a major problem on my hands with potential sewage flooding my house/garden - is that right?

4. This could be a huge re-sale issue (the buyers before me dropped out at this stage and I'm wondering if this is why)

My solicitor has said "It is not uncommon for properties to be built over or within 3 metres of a sewer and there be no build over agreement, most lenders are happy to proceed with an indemnity instead of the build over agreement. As the property was originally constructed over the sewer it’s likely the developer would have taken this into account and the water company would have been made aware at the time. I would strongly suggest speaking to the water authority to see generally what their stance is in relation to drains under properties and how they go about accessing these if the property has been built over one." (I am awaiting a reply from the water company)

The issue is that I don't know where the access to the pipe is, whether its under the house or not. The surveyor said they could only get limited access via an inspection chamber in the back garden and that most of the drainage system is hidden from view. Would the water company be able to access via that inspection chamber should they need to do any work? I assume not. 

Thanks in advance!

Its the original house that's built over it, no extensions. I don't think it was a private sewer at the time, pretty sure it was always public.

Slinky

I suspect your dealings with the water company may well invalidate any indemnity insurance

beb4

Slinky said:

I suspect your dealings with the water company may well invalidate any indemnity insurance

I've not told them that there's no build over agreement, I've just asked them how they'd access a public combined sewage pipe if it runs under the house.