Guide discussion: Voluntary national insurance contributions

molerat

I reached SP in 2019 and was unable to reach the full amount. I too had several pre 2016 gaps having retired in 2009 having planned on the SP amount reached at that time.  When the new pension came in I was more than happy that I could buy a further 3 years, 16-17 to 18-19, adding to that amount.

DrVenn

molerat said:

wmhwmh said:

Thanks for the quick response Molerat. So are you saying that buying the pre 2016 years will trigger a recalculation of the 2016 starting pension amount? If so, as you say, it may or may not, add value to the state pension -  but how do we find out? Is the COPE the same as the Contracted out Deduction ( COD )? Neither of which as you say is available. The DWP Pension Service have put in a request for someone from the department that deals with voluntary contribution calculations to give me a call so perhaps I may find out more. I still find it a bit odd that it is not easy to find out what pre- 2016 years do to your state pension calculation and so cannot make an informed decision. 

The 2016 starting amount  was based on contributions up to that date so if you add more then it will recalculate that figure. COPE is the contracted out amount that was deducted from your 2016 new pension figure.  It is, as I said, very simple to work out the effect of additional pre 2016 contributions - I have devised a spreadsheet that does it all for you - but without that COPE amount it cannot be done as that decides whether the starting amount comes from the new or old calculations and thus the maximum of either 35 or 30 years are useable. TPS should be able to give you the COPE.  

This is of interest to me from the points of view of transparency and fairness. The latter is always tricky because the drawing of any line results in "unfairness". For example, I was born on 27th September and the cut off date for the winter fuel allowance was 25th September so I missed out on £500 by two days. 

But transparency on the calculation is a different matter. I can't see any reason why DWP should not say how they arrived at my figure. Given that one gets the higher of the figures I don't think it can be called unfair, but explaining how the figures are calculated should be provided. And given that COPE is an estimate (or so it says on the letter I got) how is that figure calculated? 

And if the distinguished forum member molerat has devised a Spreadsheet to work out the effect of pre 2016 contributions for which the COPE is necessary why don't the DWP make a similar spreadsheet available? 

As I explained earlier in this thread I am very close to the maximum so this is not a battle worth fighting from my point of view. But my partner's position is much less clear cut so it might be worth pursuing with DWP. 

p00hsticks

wmhwmh said:

Thanks Molerat. I agree the calculation is simple once you have all the relative figures to work out if having 35 years in 2016 makes any differenceI. I'll wait and see what TPS can tell me but I suspect that going down that route of pre 2016 years is a dead end. You never know they may be able to supply both the old and new calculations and show how they decided - that would be handy. However that still leaves my partner in the slightly unfair position of not being able to buy additional years to recover the deducted COPE figure because she hit the state pension age a couple of years after 2016. I'm sure she's not the only one in that position. Thanks again for your input.

The old and new calculations used are are often posted here by contributors such as xylophone-  for example here

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79770871#Comment_79770871

However, as you've realised,  to made them work for an individual you need to know the various figures to plug in, such as the COPE, and these aren;t always accesible or easily calculated. It is sometimes possible to reverse engineer back from the NI record and the amount actually being forecast / recieved to work out whether the starting amount used in 2016 was that from the old or new rules, and therefore what the figures must have been.

Your partner perhaps need to bear in mind that even with just one additional year added after 2016, she is that much better off than she would have been if the old system had continued. So just the icing on the cake, but no cherry.

10241

How can I apply for NI credits for years I was eligible for Jobseeker's allowance but didn't claim it? The only advice I can find is on the National Insurance credits: Eligibility page on gov.uk (I can't post links yet):

You’re unemployed and looking for work, but not on Jobseeker’s Allowance

Contact your local Jobcentre to claim Class 1 credits"

But this only applies to the present year, not past years.

I'm referring to this part of the guide:

If you've been in any of these scenarios in years in which you had gaps in your NI record, you can apply manually for NI credits for that year:

- Jobseeker's allowance: You are/were eligible for it but not claiming it.

molerat

10241 said:

How can I apply for NI credits for years I was eligible for Jobseeker's allowance but didn't claim it? The only advice I can find is on the National Insurance credits: Eligibility page on gov.uk (I can't post links yet):

You’re unemployed and looking for work, but not on Jobseeker’s Allowance

Contact your local Jobcentre to claim Class 1 credits"

But this only applies to the present year, not past years.

I'm referring to this part of the guide:

If you've been in any of these scenarios in years in which you had gaps in your NI record, you can apply manually for NI credits for that year:

- Jobseeker's allowance: You are/were eligible for it but not claiming it.

This has been discussed elsewhere on here and the consensus seems to be that it is a figment of someone's over active imagination.  How do you convince anyone that you were eligible for jobseekers but did not claim but you were complying with all the requirements of claiming ?

p00hsticks

10241 said:

How can I apply for NI credits for years I was eligible for Jobseeker's allowance but didn't claim it?

The subject was recently raised here

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6417047/claiming-ni-credits-retrospectively/p1

As as molerat has said, the concensus is that it's almost certainly not possible, but you could try asking DWP.

10241

How can I apply for NI credits for years I was eligible for Jobseeker's allowance but didn't claim it? 

I've just called the DWP. They say it's possible, but you'll have to prove you were looking for work at the time. They said to start with form NC1, and it would involve going to the local Jobcentre.

calcotti

10241 said:

How can I apply for NI credits for years I was eligible for Jobseeker's allowance but didn't claim it? 

I've just called the DWP. They say it's possible, but you'll have to prove you were looking for work at the time. They said to start with form NC1, and it would involve going to the local Jobcentre.

"you'll have to prove you were looking for work at the time" seems to be the issue. Difficult to imagine how you do that.

siremoon

Ok so I've done all my homework on this, worked out what the optimum number of years is, confirmed it all with the pensions centre and got my reference number from HMRC for the years to be added so I'm all good to go. Now I know that the payment has to be made before April 5th 2023 but I have a question, probably a very stupid question, but hey... 

Is it literally the case that if I do an online payment I can (theoretically) do it on any day up to and including April 5th?  Ie is it the date the payment is made that is key even though it seems it takes weeks for their systems to register the fact that the payment was made?  I'm assuming it is and in reality I won't leave it right to the last minute but it would suit me best not to pay it before mid-March.  Thanks.

10241

For the purpose of applying for NI credits, which training courses are Government-approved? There's no more information on the Government's NI credits page.

I'm referring to this part of the guide:

If you've been in any of these scenarios in years in which you had gaps in your NI record, you can apply manually for NI credits for that year:
...
- On a Government-approved training course: You are/were on one, are over 18, and weren't sent on the course by Jobcentre Plus.

Full information on how to manually apply for any NI credits you're due is on the Government's national insurance credits page.