Retrospective probate needed?

Toonie

I'm trying to help my partner and his sister by doing a little research regarding their situation.

Their mother passed away in 2018. She and their father (who were married) had wills which left everything to each other and then in turn to the three children once both parents had passed away. They jointly owned their house (no mortgage).

They did not get probate when their mother passed away as everything was left to the father.

Their father passed away recently and so the second part of the will leaving everything to the three children comes into play. My partner and his sister are joint executers.

As I understand things, they need to apply for probate for their father in order to sell the house. My partners sister thinks they also need to retrospectively apply for probate for their mother, but I can't see that mentioned anywhere in the information I've found online at Gov.uk or at Citizens Advice. Have I missed something?

RAS

Can you clarify:

Which country did the parents die in? England, Wales etc?

If in England or Wales, was it owned as a joint tenancy or as tenants in common (it'll say " no Disposition without....")?

Toonie

They resided in England and I believe it is beneficial joint tenants.

shiraz99

Toonie said:

They resided in England and I believe it is beneficial joint tenants.

Then there's no need for probate for the mother, the husband would've inherited the entire estate at the time. I assume there were no life interest trust in the will allowing the other surviving partner to stay in the property?

Mojisola

It's often not necessary to get probate for the first death if everything is jointly-owned and/or left to the spouse. 

Flugelhorn

happens frequently - no probate for the first to die - everything goes to the spouse etc. You will probably need to show the conveyancer / solicitor a copy of the death cert for the first to die at some point as well as the probate for the second

Toonie

Thanks, that's very helpful. I think the Will company the parents used have been filling her head with ideas that it's a very complicated process and that they can handle it all for a small percentage of the estate. To me it seems very straight forward as the parents wills were mirrors of each other leaving it in the first instance to the spouse, and then to the children.

Flugelhorn

Toonie said:

Thanks, that's very helpful. I think the Will company the parents used have been filling her head with ideas that it's a very complicated process and that they can handle it all for a small percentage of the estate. To me it seems very straight forward as the parents wills were mirrors of each other leaving it in the first instance to the spouse, and then to the children.

unnecessary to get the company involved in most cases - it isn't complicated - I did similar and hadn't a clue before I started, I learned from people here and a couple of useful websites.

the only time anything was needed in connection with my  late father's estate was me handing a copy of the death cert to my solicitor during the conveyancing - she needed it to prove that my mother had been the sole owner prior to her death and then the probate proved that I had the right to sell the property. 


I had managed to lose my father's cert (found it later) so ordered a copy from the GRO - you know usual saga, order a new one and the old one turns up 

RAS

Toonie, if you heard the porkies that the lawyers who had possession of my parent's will told... Because they wanted their percentage.

Who actually has their father's will in their possession?

Oh and if there is anything really complex that folk on here cannot help you with, then OH and his sister can always go and see a lawyer about that particular problem for a small fee not a percentage.

Heck, people here guide folk through Scottish confirmation and that is very complex and requires precise wording.

Toonie

Thanks, it's helped put my mind at rest. We're going to chat to partners sister tomorrow to try and resolve it. She's taken on the paperwork side of things as she only works 2 days a week so has more free time during the day. Hopefully we can get this resolved easily. If I've any further questions I'll be sure to come back. These boards and the wonderful people on them are always so helpful

fromdusktilldawn

Same thing here. Solicitors named as executors on both parents wills. They wanted 5000 to apply for probate, did it ourselves. That was for one bank account and one property, made me very angry. In the end they charged us 300 for letter of renunciation, told us it 'needed to be reviewed by senior partner', and made us wait 4 weeks before releasing the wills. Fortunately we can be as awkward as **** but it makes me angry that they prey on elderly people at a difficult time. Just remember that probate forms are designed for non professionals to complete and there is help available if needed. Good luck !