Buying Near A Trainline

markin

Matilda542 said:

We used to live in New Malden, 50 yards away from the mainline track running from Waterloo to Portsmouth. As others have said after a while you don't really hear the trains, only when they're not running which is a bit odd. The big thing we noticed though is what is called track fallout whereby tiny pieces of metal rust (not noticeable to the human eye) settled in our garden. Anything like a white door ledge and window sills from the double glazing eventually turned a light yellow and no amount of cleaning got rid of it. It also settled on our cars and eventually the roof and bonnet had quite a rough texture even with regular car washing. Personally I wouldn't live near a train line again.

50 yards is 45 Meter, 147ft.

I would guess a buffer of 100ft of the house would be fine for most people, but what about garden use!

"At 25m (82ft) from the track the 85-decibel noise of their 155mph high-speed train"

BBC "Despite an absence of official numbers, the chairwoman of the Stop HS2 group, Lizzy Williams, estimates at 50m (164ft) from the track, the noise from the trains will be "between 95 and 97 decibels every two minutes if the line runs at capacity"."

lookstraightahead

I love the sound of trains but hate the sound of traffic - so I would rather live on a platform than any busy road. But we are all different and if you are already concerned you will be listening out for the noise.

If I asked about road noise I would have the same range of answers but I know I would not get used to the traffic noise.

lookstraightahead

SuseOrm said:

So I lived near to a bridge and I mean literally the bottom of my garden was the embankment leading up to the train line for six months thank heavens above I was only renting because I literally did not get a full night sleep in six months.  I never got used to the flashing lights it was like the northern lights when there was any rain because of the electricity hit in the overlay cables whenever any maintenance was done there were vans pulling up outside my front door to access the line,  it’s relentless what people don’t seem to realise is when the commute to train stop the consumer goods trains start so literally day and night every 3 to 4 minutes there is a train going past.  The property I rented was a fairly solid detached house that have been converted into four flats the high-speed trains used to make the windows rattle they were double glazed I don’t know how well they were fitted.  

I’ve now moved less than 3 miles away and I am closer to the station and I don’t the trains at all.  

So that’s a hard no from me to living near to the train line

this is me with traffic noise. I had to move house. I became more sensitive to all traffic noise everywhere to the point I couldn't stay in a hotel near a road.

I now live in a quiet area and don't even think about whether the hotel / restaurant / holiday place will be by a road.

oddly, I leave our window open at night so that I can hear the trains (albeit in the distance) as I find it calming 😂

i totally understand your perspective. 

YBR

TBagpuss said:

if the line is on an embankment then think about whether passengers and traindrivers will be able to see into your garden or windows, and whether you care ! (and whether light pollution from trains passing after dark will bother you 

Trains only stop at red signals and stations normally, so unless you can see some signals on posts or gantries this is unlikely to apply to you, and having said that, the Signalling systems are designed to have yellow/green signals in front of trains as much as possible, for better passenger experience, higher capacity and to save energy.

Section62

YBR said:

TBagpuss said:

if the line is on an embankment then think about whether passengers and traindrivers will be able to see into your garden or windows, and whether you care ! (and whether light pollution from trains passing after dark will bother you 

Trains only stop at red signals and stations normally, so unless you can see some signals on posts or gantries this is unlikely to apply to you, and having said that, the Signalling systems are designed to have yellow/green signals in front of trains as much as possible, for better passenger experience, higher capacity and to save energy.

There are also ground signals which are harder to spot than the ones on posts or gantries.  Also worth bearing in mind that Network Rail don't need to consult nearby residents before installing new infrastructure such as signals.

Longer term, ERTMS is being introduced which will ultimately replace lineside signals with in-cab signalling.  So there won't be lineside signals to act as a guide.  In principle with ERTMS trains could stop anywhere the system tells them to, and there's no guarantee that the standard 'stopping' places will stay where the lineside signals currently are.

Certainly the presence of a signal now will be a guide to potential disturbance currently, but the lack of a signal doesn't mean there won't be disturbance in the future.

Gavin83

bouicca21 said:

How near is near?  The other side of my road backs onto a commuter line.  There is noise but I don’t notice it.   That I’m close to the station is a mixed blessing. Handy, but makes parking difficult because of all those commuters who refuse to walk anywhere and are too tight to pay to use the station car park.

Have you not got permit parking?

I used to live on a fairly busy road right next to a bus stop and a pedestrian crossing. I actually found the worst thing was pulling out the drive with my car, the noise didn't really bother me at all. However I'm not sure I'd particularly wish to live near a train line. I also have friends who used to live right under the flight path for an airport (less than a mile from the runway) and I found that incredibly disturbing whenever I stayed.

I did actually used to live a few minutes walk from a train station but it was far away enough that we didn't hear any noise.

YBR

Section62 said:

YBR said:

TBagpuss said:

if the line is on an embankment then think about whether passengers and traindrivers will be able to see into your garden or windows, and whether you care ! (and whether light pollution from trains passing after dark will bother you 

Trains only stop at red signals and stations normally, so unless you can see some signals on posts or gantries this is unlikely to apply to you, and having said that, the Signalling systems are designed to have yellow/green signals in front of trains as much as possible, for better passenger experience, higher capacity and to save energy.

There are also ground signals which are harder to spot than the ones on posts or gantries.  Also worth bearing in mind that Network Rail don't need to consult nearby residents before installing new infrastructure such as signals.

Longer term, ERTMS is being introduced which will ultimately replace lineside signals with in-cab signalling.  So there won't be lineside signals to act as a guide.  In principle with ERTMS trains could stop anywhere the system tells them to, and there's no guarantee that the standard 'stopping' places will stay where the lineside signals currently are.

Certainly the presence of a signal now will be a guide to potential disturbance currently, but the lack of a signal doesn't mean there won't be disturbance in the future.

What @Section62 says is correct, but it is rare for Ground Signals to be regularly used as Stop signals on passenger lines unless there's sidings. Generally they're set to instruct a train (driver) to proceed, before the previous signal can be set to proceed. It's because ground signals are not used for passenger services but for shunting empty stock or freight trains, and so those trains ideally should not be stopped for too long where they might block passenger trains.

ERTMS (more accurately ETCS - European Train Control System) is not being rolled out short term for much of the UK railway but if the OP can say the location then we can comment. For example the East Coast Mainline is planned, but projects in Southern being resignalled now don't. In some areas, such as Paddington to Heathrow on the GWR, ETCS is being installed and commissioned as an overlay to the existing signalling and the signals therefore remain. I make a guess it will be at least a decade before they remove the existing signals in that case. 
ETCS is not mature enough for trains to stop anywhere, although that will come to the mainline eventually.

If there is a major resignalling project, then that could be disruptive in itself, probably more of a pain than normal timetable and maintenance activities. They tend to entail more plant, and floodlighting, and working at night, weekends and Bank Holidays.

That's probably far too much information, but I couldn't resist!

Section62

YBR said:

Section62 said:

YBR said:

TBagpuss said:

if the line is on an embankment then think about whether passengers and traindrivers will be able to see into your garden or windows, and whether you care ! (and whether light pollution from trains passing after dark will bother you 

Trains only stop at red signals and stations normally, so unless you can see some signals on posts or gantries this is unlikely to apply to you, and having said that, the Signalling systems are designed to have yellow/green signals in front of trains as much as possible, for better passenger experience, higher capacity and to save energy.

There are also ground signals which are harder to spot than the ones on posts or gantries.  Also worth bearing in mind that Network Rail don't need to consult nearby residents before installing new infrastructure such as signals.

Longer term, ERTMS is being introduced which will ultimately replace lineside signals with in-cab signalling.  So there won't be lineside signals to act as a guide.  In principle with ERTMS trains could stop anywhere the system tells them to, and there's no guarantee that the standard 'stopping' places will stay where the lineside signals currently are.

Certainly the presence of a signal now will be a guide to potential disturbance currently, but the lack of a signal doesn't mean there won't be disturbance in the future.

What @Section62 says is correct, but it is rare for Ground Signals to be regularly used as Stop signals on passenger lines unless there's sidings. Generally they're set to instruct a train (driver) to proceed, before the previous signal can be set to proceed. It's because ground signals are not used for passenger services but for shunting empty stock or freight trains, and so those trains ideally should not be stopped for too long where they might block passenger trains.

My point was more general - that there are places other than what a layperson might identify as a signal where trains sometimes stop and wait.

Personally, my 'worst case' would be living near a location where diesel freight trains are likely to stop, perhaps spending significant time with the engine idling waiting for permission to proceed, followed by the roar of the engine as the locomotive restarts the train.  A location where that could happen may be equipped with ground signals, and not obvious unless you know what to look for.

YBR said:

ERTMS (more accurately ETCS - European Train Control System) is not being rolled out short term for much of the UK railway but if the OP can say the location then we can comment. For example the East Coast Mainline is planned, but projects in Southern being resignalled now don't. In some areas, such as Paddington to Heathrow on the GWR, ETCS is being installed and commissioned as an overlay to the existing signalling and the signals therefore remain. I make a guess it will be at least a decade before they remove the existing signals in that case. 

The main point was that things are changing and relying on the absence of signals is unsafe if you don't want potential disturbance, because there is a huge process of modernising the signalling system currently under way.

ORR said:
The European Rail Traffic Management System (ERTMS) is a European train control system that will be introduced onto the GB rail network over the next 30 years.

https://www.orr.gov.uk/guidance-compliance/rail/health-safety/infrastructure/train-protection/ertms

andy444

I used to live next to a train line. Never again is all I will say!

LHW99

Section62 said:

YBR said:

Section62 said:

YBR said:

TBagpuss said:

if the line is on an embankment then think about whether passengers and traindrivers will be able to see into your garden or windows, and whether you care ! (and whether light pollution from trains passing after dark will bother you 

Trains only stop at red signals and stations normally, so unless you can see some signals on posts or gantries this is unlikely to apply to you, and having said that, the Signalling systems are designed to have yellow/green signals in front of trains as much as possible, for better passenger experience, higher capacity and to save energy.

There are also ground signals which are harder to spot than the ones on posts or gantries.  Also worth bearing in mind that Network Rail don't need to consult nearby residents before installing new infrastructure such as signals.

Longer term, ERTMS is being introduced which will ultimately replace lineside signals with in-cab signalling.  So there won't be lineside signals to act as a guide.  In principle with ERTMS trains could stop anywhere the system tells them to, and there's no guarantee that the standard 'stopping' places will stay where the lineside signals currently are.

Certainly the presence of a signal now will be a guide to potential disturbance currently, but the lack of a signal doesn't mean there won't be disturbance in the future.

What @Section62 says is correct, but it is rare for Ground Signals to be regularly used as Stop signals on passenger lines unless there's sidings. Generally they're set to instruct a train (driver) to proceed, before the previous signal can be set to proceed. It's because ground signals are not used for passenger services but for shunting empty stock or freight trains, and so those trains ideally should not be stopped for too long where they might block passenger trains.

My point was more general - that there are places other than what a layperson might identify as a signal where trains sometimes stop and wait.

Personally, my 'worst case' would be living near a location where diesel freight trains are likely to stop, perhaps spending significant time with the engine idling waiting for permission to proceed, followed by the roar of the engine as the locomotive restarts the train.  A location where that could happen may be equipped with ground signals, and not obvious unless you know what to look for.

YBR said:

ERTMS (more accurately ETCS - European Train Control System) is not being rolled out short term for much of the UK railway but if the OP can say the location then we can comment. For example the East Coast Mainline is planned, but projects in Southern being resignalled now don't. In some areas, such as Paddington to Heathrow on the GWR, ETCS is being installed and commissioned as an overlay to the existing signalling and the signals therefore remain. I make a guess it will be at least a decade before they remove the existing signals in that case. 

The main point was that things are changing and relying on the absence of signals is unsafe if you don't want potential disturbance, because there is a huge process of modernising the signalling system currently under way.

ORR said:
The European Rail Traffic Management System (ERTMS) is a European train control system that will be introduced onto the GB rail network over the next 30 years.

https://www.orr.gov.uk/guidance-compliance/rail/health-safety/infrastructure/train-protection/ertms

Yes, watch out for places where diesels stop and idle. My OH rented a place where his bedroom wall was the retaining wall bedise the railway line, and the gantry for the signals was opposite the next door building. The midnight diesel waited outside and the whole building shook.

Having said that, I have lived in a couple of places with a mainline at the bottom of the garden / over the road and didn't notice after the first week or so.