MSE News: 30% of British Gas, Octopus & Shell Energy customers say their direct debits have DOUBLED

Sea_Shell

NameWithheld said:

Octopus haven't asked me to increase my direct debit yet. In fact their website still has my old direct debit as my recommended payment. But I decided to increase mine to £250. Why £250? Because it maximises my Santander cash back, and it is also roughly what I estimate I'll need over the next 12 months, ignoring the October price rise. 

Similar here, but £250 for us would end up with huge credit...may still be worth it, as they seem to arrange rebates quickly!?!

I'm surprised they haven't pulled it yet, I keep expecting an email to drop😉

pochase

Tiger_greeneyes said:

pochase said:

Tiger_greeneyes said:

pochase said:

Tiger_greeneyes said:

MSE_Petar said:

At least 30% of British Gas, Octopus Energy and Shell Energy customers who were in credit and on price-capped tariffs told the UK’s biggest consumer website, MoneySavingExpert.com (MSE), that they've seen their direct debits double – even though the price cap rise is half that, at 54%. Across all firms, 25% of customers in this situation reported direct debits doubling or more.

Read the full story:
'30% of British Gas, Octopus & Shell Energy customers say their direct debits have DOUBLED'

If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.

I've looked at my payments for my electricity. In 10 months, my bills have trebled. I'm pretty useless with working out anything to do with figures since I had meningitis so can anyone tell me if that's how it should be, please, or should I get onto my electricity supplier (OutfoxtheMarket)?

Were you on a fixed tariff 10 months ago, that would explain a huge increase.

Can you please let us know

- old direct debit amount
- new direct debit amount
- how much energy did you use the last 12 months. gas and electricity, or if you are on E7 day and night units
- were you in credit or debit on your last bill and by how much?
- current unit rates and standing charges

Thank you - up until last June my bills were £39.25 per month. In April, ten months later they increased to £113.30. I wasn't on a fixed rate as far as I can remember. I'm £89 in credit. I'm a very low user plus I've stopped using my tv (except maybe an hour a day, on average) since beginning April to save more money. I don't have gas, I have oil fired heating and hot water and an electric shower.

Here's my usage table:

Apr 2021	148.69
May 2021	310.93
Jun 2021	402.60
Jul 2021	276.22
Aug 2021	347.72
Sep 2021	378.82
Oct 2021	332.12
Nov 2021	342.86
Dec 2021	375.41
Jan 2022	386.95
Feb 2022	316.66
Mar 2022	416.32
Apr 2022	219.66
May 2022	144.34

Supplier	Outfox The Market
Tariff name	Fox Standard Elec
Tariff type	Electricity Only - Variable
Payment Method	Direct Debit
Day Rate	35.659p per kWh
Night Rate	23.463p per kWh

I don't use much electricity at night, I'm usually in bed early. My oil boiler was recently serviced and is working at 96% efficiency, apparently that's good for a 12 year old boiler but I'm not a high user of oil - 1200 litres lasts me almost a year.

Thanks again.

First things first. The E7 rate you seem to be on does not make any sense if you use an oil boiler for heating and hot water and don't use much electricity at night. A single rate will be much cheaper for you.

You are only giving one set of readings, are they combined day and night rates? For now I am going to use a 80/20 split day/night

For the 4106.27KWh between May 21 and Aril 2021 that would be 3285KWh at day rate and 821KWh at night rate.  4106KWh while without heating is high, the average Ofgem uses for their calculation is 2900KWh.

Cost for day electricity is £1171.40, night £192.69 plus a standing charge calculated at 0.40 per day = £140. That is a total of £1506.10, or £125.51 per month.

When I do the same calculation with a singe rate of using EDF pricing for the most expensive region North Wales and Merseyside I calculate annually £1388, almost 120£ less, and even less if you are in a cheaper region.

You would need to use half your electricity at night for it to be cheaper than the single rate above.

Thank you so much, apologies for omitting the readings, they're as below, going back to October 2021.

If you still think I'd be better off on a single use supply I'm more than happy to change it over. As I said before, I have a brain injury due to meningitis so figures just swim on the page for me.

L (Night)	08 May 2022	4379.0
N (Day)	08 May 2022	38095.0
L (Night)	09 Apr 2022	4339.0
N (Day)	09 Apr 2022	37859.0
L (Night)	31 Mar 2022	4321.0
N (Day)	31 Mar 2022	37789.0
L (Night)	07 Mar 2022	4291.0
N (Day)	07 Mar 2022	37576.0
L (Night)	08 Feb 2022	4268.0
N (Day)	08 Feb 2022	37280.0
L (Night)	08 Jan 2022	4242.0
N (Day)	08 Jan 2022	36951.0
L (Night)	07 Dec 2021	4221.0
N (Day)	07 Dec 2021	36579.0
L (Night)	10 Oct 2021	4172.0
N (Day)	10 Oct 2021	35921.0

Yes, the above figures make the E7 tariff even more uneconomical. you used a total of 2381KWh in the above time frame, of which 207KWh are at night, that is less than 10%. You need at least 30 to 40% of your use at night for E7 to make sense.

At todays rate you would pay £823.82 on the E7 tariff, but only £690.49 at single rate. I have used here 29p for the single, which is already relatively high for most regions. Standing charges are not included in the calculation, but should be identical anyway for E7 and single rate.

No idea who advised you to go on E7, if you look at the two registers you can see that it never made any sense, the whole life time of the meter the share of the night tariff is slightly over 10%

Tiger_greeneyes

pochase said:

Tiger_greeneyes said:

pochase said:

Tiger_greeneyes said:

pochase said:

Tiger_greeneyes said:

MSE_Petar said:

At least 30% of British Gas, Octopus Energy and Shell Energy customers who were in credit and on price-capped tariffs told the UK’s biggest consumer website, MoneySavingExpert.com (MSE), that they've seen their direct debits double – even though the price cap rise is half that, at 54%. Across all firms, 25% of customers in this situation reported direct debits doubling or more.

Read the full story:
'30% of British Gas, Octopus & Shell Energy customers say their direct debits have DOUBLED'

If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.

I've looked at my payments for my electricity. In 10 months, my bills have trebled. I'm pretty useless with working out anything to do with figures since I had meningitis so can anyone tell me if that's how it should be, please, or should I get onto my electricity supplier (OutfoxtheMarket)?

Were you on a fixed tariff 10 months ago, that would explain a huge increase.

Can you please let us know

- old direct debit amount
- new direct debit amount
- how much energy did you use the last 12 months. gas and electricity, or if you are on E7 day and night units
- were you in credit or debit on your last bill and by how much?
- current unit rates and standing charges

Thank you - up until last June my bills were £39.25 per month. In April, ten months later they increased to £113.30. I wasn't on a fixed rate as far as I can remember. I'm £89 in credit. I'm a very low user plus I've stopped using my tv (except maybe an hour a day, on average) since beginning April to save more money. I don't have gas, I have oil fired heating and hot water and an electric shower.

Here's my usage table:

Apr 2021	148.69
May 2021	310.93
Jun 2021	402.60
Jul 2021	276.22
Aug 2021	347.72
Sep 2021	378.82
Oct 2021	332.12
Nov 2021	342.86
Dec 2021	375.41
Jan 2022	386.95
Feb 2022	316.66
Mar 2022	416.32
Apr 2022	219.66
May 2022	144.34

Supplier	Outfox The Market
Tariff name	Fox Standard Elec
Tariff type	Electricity Only - Variable
Payment Method	Direct Debit
Day Rate	35.659p per kWh
Night Rate	23.463p per kWh

I don't use much electricity at night, I'm usually in bed early. My oil boiler was recently serviced and is working at 96% efficiency, apparently that's good for a 12 year old boiler but I'm not a high user of oil - 1200 litres lasts me almost a year.

Thanks again.

First things first. The E7 rate you seem to be on does not make any sense if you use an oil boiler for heating and hot water and don't use much electricity at night. A single rate will be much cheaper for you.

You are only giving one set of readings, are they combined day and night rates? For now I am going to use a 80/20 split day/night

For the 4106.27KWh between May 21 and Aril 2021 that would be 3285KWh at day rate and 821KWh at night rate.  4106KWh while without heating is high, the average Ofgem uses for their calculation is 2900KWh.

Cost for day electricity is £1171.40, night £192.69 plus a standing charge calculated at 0.40 per day = £140. That is a total of £1506.10, or £125.51 per month.

When I do the same calculation with a singe rate of using EDF pricing for the most expensive region North Wales and Merseyside I calculate annually £1388, almost 120£ less, and even less if you are in a cheaper region.

You would need to use half your electricity at night for it to be cheaper than the single rate above.

Thank you so much, apologies for omitting the readings, they're as below, going back to October 2021.

If you still think I'd be better off on a single use supply I'm more than happy to change it over. As I said before, I have a brain injury due to meningitis so figures just swim on the page for me.

L (Night)	08 May 2022	4379.0
N (Day)	08 May 2022	38095.0
L (Night)	09 Apr 2022	4339.0
N (Day)	09 Apr 2022	37859.0
L (Night)	31 Mar 2022	4321.0
N (Day)	31 Mar 2022	37789.0
L (Night)	07 Mar 2022	4291.0
N (Day)	07 Mar 2022	37576.0
L (Night)	08 Feb 2022	4268.0
N (Day)	08 Feb 2022	37280.0
L (Night)	08 Jan 2022	4242.0
N (Day)	08 Jan 2022	36951.0
L (Night)	07 Dec 2021	4221.0
N (Day)	07 Dec 2021	36579.0
L (Night)	10 Oct 2021	4172.0
N (Day)	10 Oct 2021	35921.0

Yes, the above figures make the E7 tariff even more uneconomical. you used a total of 2381KWh in the above time frame, of which 207KWh are at night, that is less than 10%. You need at least 30 to 40% of your use at night for E7 to make sense.

At todays rate you would pay £823.82 on the E7 tariff, but only £690.49 at single rate. I have used here 29p for the single, which is already relatively high for most regions. Standing charges are not included in the calculation, but should be identical anyway for E7 and single rate.

No idea who advised you to go on E7, if you look at the two registers you can see that it never made any sense, the whole life time of the meter the share of the night tariff is slightly over 10%

That's fantastic advice thank you. I don't remember a conversation with any of the suppliers we've had because of my brain injury but I'll call OTM and explain that I just want the single rate from now on. You'd have thought they'd have picked up on it and advised me but then again...

I really appreciate your help with this!

Grahame151

A lot of the problem is direct debits, they allow the companies to change them, increase them and to me its wrong. Its your money, YOU control it, nobody else. Use standing orders, its takes a few minutes once a year to set up. Query the figures from the company and don't ring them never ring them , put it in writing always. They willl say things on the phone that they will never put on paper,also tell them you are recording the call if they ring you. My money is better off in my account than theirs, yours is no different, unless you have so much you're not bothered.

pochase

Grahame151 said:

A lot of the problem is direct debits, they allow the companies to change them, increase them and to me its wrong. Its your money, YOU control it, nobody else. Use standing orders, its takes a few minutes once a year to set up. Query the figures from the company and don't ring them never ring them , put it in writing always. They willl say things on the phone that they will never put on paper,also tell them you are recording the call if they ring you. My money is better off in my account than theirs, yours is no different, unless you have so much you're not bothered.

Why are you advising people to pay more for their energy just to "have the money in their own account"?

Standing order rates are much higher for most suppliers than direct debit. As far as I am aware Octopus is the only supplier that does not differentiate.

Using the CAP customer with 12000KWh gas and 2900KWh electricity in the East Midlands region from the EDF price list in the below example paying by standing order is 7% more expensive.

If you just compare the standing charges you pay over 13.5% more for those. That is over 35£ per year more just for not using a direct debit.





If you are happy to pay more for this privilege that is fine and up to you, but don't advise people to do the same without telling them that it is really expensive.

If somebody wants to not have their money in the account of the supplier they can choose to do a variable direct debit, only paying what they have used the last month. You don't even pay any longer upfront, you now pay after you used the energy. Big drawback here is that the winter bills will be much higher, and people need to be have enough money in their accounts that they don't care, or they need to budget for it and set the money aside themselves.

Edit
Just saw that I used the cheaper SC for prepaid for electricity. Using the correct 50.53 we go up to 14.7% and £38.65 more for standing charges.

OnlyH

My dd to Octopus has doubled but I believe it is correct.

My balance was approaching zero so followed the link to review my direct debit. Octopus' suggestion was slightly higher than my calculation but I noticed the increase was going to be delayed for a month so probably about right.

A high balance had built up in the past due to a reduction in my household's energy use (fewer people at home). As prices have increased, my balance has been reducing each month, even when the heating went off, and my dd did not reflect the cost of the energy I was using.

sammyjammy

I've got past this issue by changing to payment on receipt of bill (still DD),  I am still on a good fix until Jan 2023 and got fed up with them increasing my DD every month for no reason, I'm perfectly capable of putting money aside and paying it when its needed.

GingerTim

sammyjammy said:

I've got past this issue by changing to payment on receipt of bill (still DD),  I am still on a good fix until Jan 2023 and got fed up with them increasing my DD every month for no reason, I'm perfectly capable of putting money aside and paying it when its needed.

Same - variable direct debit works for me, too. I do worry, though, that for a good number of people who've switched to a variable direct debit to keep the costs down over summer it won't, and fear we will have a good number of posts come November to February from people not able to cope with £300/400/500+ bills for several months.

Gerry1

sammyjammy said:

I've got past this issue by changing to payment on receipt of bill (still DD),  I am still on a good fix until Jan 2023 and got fed up with them increasing my DD every month for no reason, I'm perfectly capable of putting money aside and paying it when its needed.

Just for the record, presumably you mean Variable Direct Debit?  Paying on Receipt of Bill is a different method and usually costs more.

bristolleedsfan

Gerry1 said:

sammyjammy said:

I've got past this issue by changing to payment on receipt of bill (still DD)

,  I am still on a good fix until Jan 2023 and got fed up with them increasing my DD every month for no reason, I'm perfectly capable of putting money aside and paying it when its needed.

Just for the record, presumably you mean Variable Direct Debit?  Paying on Receipt of Bill is a different method and usually costs more.

EDF, Eon Next, British Gas, none of these charge more for Variable DIrect Debit which is Paying on Receipt of Bill by DD , Octopus do not charge any more irrespective of payment method.

Post you quoted was clear "still DD"