MSE News: 30% of British Gas, Octopus & Shell Energy customers say their direct debits have DOUBLED

molerat

Tiger_greeneyes said:

pochase said:

Tiger_greeneyes said:

MSE_Petar said:

At least 30% of British Gas, Octopus Energy and Shell Energy customers who were in credit and on price-capped tariffs told the UK’s biggest consumer website, MoneySavingExpert.com (MSE), that they've seen their direct debits double – even though the price cap rise is half that, at 54%. Across all firms, 25% of customers in this situation reported direct debits doubling or more.

Read the full story:
'30% of British Gas, Octopus & Shell Energy customers say their direct debits have DOUBLED'

If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.

I've looked at my payments for my electricity. In 10 months, my bills have trebled. I'm pretty useless with working out anything to do with figures since I had meningitis so can anyone tell me if that's how it should be, please, or should I get onto my electricity supplier (OutfoxtheMarket)?

Were you on a fixed tariff 10 months ago, that would explain a huge increase.

Can you please let us know

- old direct debit amount
- new direct debit amount
- how much energy did you use the last 12 months. gas and electricity, or if you are on E7 day and night units
- were you in credit or debit on your last bill and by how much?
- current unit rates and standing charges

Thank you - up until last June my bills were £39.25 per month. In April, ten months later they increased to £113.30. I wasn't on a fixed rate as far as I can remember. I'm £89 in credit. I'm a very low user plus I've stopped using my tv (except maybe an hour a day, on average) since beginning April to save more money. I don't have gas, I have oil fired heating and hot water and an electric shower.

Here's my usage table:

Apr 2021	148.69
May 2021	310.93
Jun 2021	402.60
Jul 2021	276.22
Aug 2021	347.72
Sep 2021	378.82
Oct 2021	332.12
Nov 2021	342.86
Dec 2021	375.41
Jan 2022	386.95
Feb 2022	316.66
Mar 2022	416.32
Apr 2022	219.66
May 2022	144.34

Supplier	Outfox The Market
Tariff name	Fox Standard Elec
Tariff type	Electricity Only - Variable
Payment Method	Direct Debit
Day Rate	35.659p per kWh
Night Rate	23.463p per kWh

I don't use much electricity at night, I'm usually in bed early. My oil boiler was recently serviced and is working at 96% efficiency, apparently that's good for a 12 year old boiler but I'm not a high user of oil - 1200 litres lasts me almost a year.

Thanks again.

If those figures are monthly kWh then you are not a "low user", in fact just below average for an E7 user and above average if not using electric for heating.  Not using much at night could be putting you at a disadvantage on E7, what is your day / night split ?.  At the Oct 21 cap your use, at single rate, would have been around £78 pm and at the April 22 cap £109 pm.  I can't see how your actual use could have been £39 pm on SVR as last year I was on a very good deal and that use would have cost £45.

kulostwo

what about just simply cancelling DD and deprive utilities company from this gain  they use to improve their cash flow and has nothing to do with their customers usage ?

pochase

Tiger_greeneyes said:

pochase said:

Tiger_greeneyes said:

MSE_Petar said:

At least 30% of British Gas, Octopus Energy and Shell Energy customers who were in credit and on price-capped tariffs told the UK’s biggest consumer website, MoneySavingExpert.com (MSE), that they've seen their direct debits double – even though the price cap rise is half that, at 54%. Across all firms, 25% of customers in this situation reported direct debits doubling or more.

Read the full story:
'30% of British Gas, Octopus & Shell Energy customers say their direct debits have DOUBLED'

If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.

I've looked at my payments for my electricity. In 10 months, my bills have trebled. I'm pretty useless with working out anything to do with figures since I had meningitis so can anyone tell me if that's how it should be, please, or should I get onto my electricity supplier (OutfoxtheMarket)?

Were you on a fixed tariff 10 months ago, that would explain a huge increase.

Can you please let us know

- old direct debit amount
- new direct debit amount
- how much energy did you use the last 12 months. gas and electricity, or if you are on E7 day and night units
- were you in credit or debit on your last bill and by how much?
- current unit rates and standing charges

Thank you - up until last June my bills were £39.25 per month. In April, ten months later they increased to £113.30. I wasn't on a fixed rate as far as I can remember. I'm £89 in credit. I'm a very low user plus I've stopped using my tv (except maybe an hour a day, on average) since beginning April to save more money. I don't have gas, I have oil fired heating and hot water and an electric shower.

Here's my usage table:

Apr 2021	148.69
May 2021	310.93
Jun 2021	402.60
Jul 2021	276.22
Aug 2021	347.72
Sep 2021	378.82
Oct 2021	332.12
Nov 2021	342.86
Dec 2021	375.41
Jan 2022	386.95
Feb 2022	316.66
Mar 2022	416.32
Apr 2022	219.66
May 2022	144.34

Supplier	Outfox The Market
Tariff name	Fox Standard Elec
Tariff type	Electricity Only - Variable
Payment Method	Direct Debit
Day Rate	35.659p per kWh
Night Rate	23.463p per kWh

I don't use much electricity at night, I'm usually in bed early. My oil boiler was recently serviced and is working at 96% efficiency, apparently that's good for a 12 year old boiler but I'm not a high user of oil - 1200 litres lasts me almost a year.

Thanks again.

First things first. The E7 rate you seem to be on does not make any sense if you use an oil boiler for heating and hot water and don't use much electricity at night. A single rate will be much cheaper for you.

You are only giving one set of readings, are they combined day and night rates? For now I am going to use a 80/20 split day/night

For the 4106.27KWh between May 21 and Aril 2021 that would be 3285KWh at day rate and 821KWh at night rate.  4106KWh while without heating is high, the average Ofgem uses for their calculation is 2900KWh.

Cost for day electricity is £1171.40, night £192.69 plus a standing charge calculated at 0.40 per day = £140. That is a total of £1506.10, or £125.51 per month.

When I do the same calculation with a singe rate of using EDF pricing for the most expensive region North Wales and Merseyside I calculate annually £1388, almost 120£ less, and even less if you are in a cheaper region.

You would need to use half your electricity at night for it to be cheaper than the single rate above.

pochase

molerat said:

Thrugelmir said:

"that they've seen their direct debits double – even though the price cap rise is half that, at 54%."

For a site suppossedly expert on the matters of finance that's a shocking piece of journalism. No wonder there's mass confusion if the experts cannot even get their facts right. 

MSE editorial content is now little more than a click bait red top rag run by a company with financial interests rather than the consumer focussed organisation it once was,

This article encouraging people try to reduce their direct debit without  first analysing their situation is just wrong There is nothing about calculating first how much the energy you need will really cost you and it seems supplier go knowingly with direct debit amounts that will not be sufficient for the next year.

Yes, from what we see there are suppliers who are trying to milk customers for as much money upfront as possible, but it is by far not as bad as described in the article. They don't mention at all that there is no 54% increase, but that each situation is different, or that the 54% only describes a specific scenario  going from SVT to SVT, and is completely different for coming of a fixed rate. A 150% increase or more might be complete justified here.

Going from the success stories that are posted at the moment I expect a lot of threads in 10 to 12 months time reporting that they suddenly have a huge debt and why their supplier did allow them to build up this debt by reducing their direct debit under the amount required.

No idea why suppliers agree to reductions that will cause problems. Are they maybe scared of the Ofgem investigation into direct debit orders and are now making their mistake sin the opposite direction?

Thrugelmir

kulostwo said:

what about just simply cancelling DD and deprive utilities company from this gain  they use to improve their cash flow and has nothing to do with their customers usage ?

People need to understand their usage. That's where the savings are to be made. 

I suspect a lot of people pumped up their meter readings at the 31st March. Now the chickens are coming home to roost. 

MSE of course promoted this. Blaming someone else is the culture we live in. 

Sea_Shell

I agree.

Before anyone disputes a DD, they really need to be able to understand how it's been arrived at, even if they feel it's too high, and have made their own calculations to be able to query it.

You need to be armed with your evidence, and understand what you're trying to achieve.

Not just a cheaper DD!  It needs to be realistic...which will mean it's probably significantly higher than before.

Tiger_greeneyes

pochase said:

Tiger_greeneyes said:

pochase said:

Tiger_greeneyes said:

MSE_Petar said:

At least 30% of British Gas, Octopus Energy and Shell Energy customers who were in credit and on price-capped tariffs told the UK’s biggest consumer website, MoneySavingExpert.com (MSE), that they've seen their direct debits double – even though the price cap rise is half that, at 54%. Across all firms, 25% of customers in this situation reported direct debits doubling or more.

Read the full story:
'30% of British Gas, Octopus & Shell Energy customers say their direct debits have DOUBLED'

If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.

I've looked at my payments for my electricity. In 10 months, my bills have trebled. I'm pretty useless with working out anything to do with figures since I had meningitis so can anyone tell me if that's how it should be, please, or should I get onto my electricity supplier (OutfoxtheMarket)?

Were you on a fixed tariff 10 months ago, that would explain a huge increase.

Can you please let us know

- old direct debit amount
- new direct debit amount
- how much energy did you use the last 12 months. gas and electricity, or if you are on E7 day and night units
- were you in credit or debit on your last bill and by how much?
- current unit rates and standing charges

Thank you - up until last June my bills were £39.25 per month. In April, ten months later they increased to £113.30. I wasn't on a fixed rate as far as I can remember. I'm £89 in credit. I'm a very low user plus I've stopped using my tv (except maybe an hour a day, on average) since beginning April to save more money. I don't have gas, I have oil fired heating and hot water and an electric shower.

Here's my usage table:

Apr 2021	148.69
May 2021	310.93
Jun 2021	402.60
Jul 2021	276.22
Aug 2021	347.72
Sep 2021	378.82
Oct 2021	332.12
Nov 2021	342.86
Dec 2021	375.41
Jan 2022	386.95
Feb 2022	316.66
Mar 2022	416.32
Apr 2022	219.66
May 2022	144.34

Supplier	Outfox The Market
Tariff name	Fox Standard Elec
Tariff type	Electricity Only - Variable
Payment Method	Direct Debit
Day Rate	35.659p per kWh
Night Rate	23.463p per kWh

I don't use much electricity at night, I'm usually in bed early. My oil boiler was recently serviced and is working at 96% efficiency, apparently that's good for a 12 year old boiler but I'm not a high user of oil - 1200 litres lasts me almost a year.

Thanks again.

First things first. The E7 rate you seem to be on does not make any sense if you use an oil boiler for heating and hot water and don't use much electricity at night. A single rate will be much cheaper for you.

You are only giving one set of readings, are they combined day and night rates? For now I am going to use a 80/20 split day/night

For the 4106.27KWh between May 21 and Aril 2021 that would be 3285KWh at day rate and 821KWh at night rate.  4106KWh while without heating is high, the average Ofgem uses for their calculation is 2900KWh.

Cost for day electricity is £1171.40, night £192.69 plus a standing charge calculated at 0.40 per day = £140. That is a total of £1506.10, or £125.51 per month.

When I do the same calculation with a singe rate of using EDF pricing for the most expensive region North Wales and Merseyside I calculate annually £1388, almost 120£ less, and even less if you are in a cheaper region.

You would need to use half your electricity at night for it to be cheaper than the single rate above.

Thank you so much, apologies for omitting the readings, they're as below, going back to October 2021.

If you still think I'd be better off on a single use supply I'm more than happy to change it over. As I said before, I have a brain injury due to meningitis so figures just swim on the page for me.

L (Night)	08 May 2022	4379.0
N (Day)	08 May 2022	38095.0
L (Night)	09 Apr 2022	4339.0
N (Day)	09 Apr 2022	37859.0
L (Night)	31 Mar 2022	4321.0
N (Day)	31 Mar 2022	37789.0
L (Night)	07 Mar 2022	4291.0
N (Day)	07 Mar 2022	37576.0
L (Night)	08 Feb 2022	4268.0
N (Day)	08 Feb 2022	37280.0
L (Night)	08 Jan 2022	4242.0
N (Day)	08 Jan 2022	36951.0
L (Night)	07 Dec 2021	4221.0
N (Day)	07 Dec 2021	36579.0
L (Night)	10 Oct 2021	4172.0
N (Day)	10 Oct 2021	35921.0

John_Pierpoint

Just for the record, I have two Octopus accounts.

The small one is on the standard variable rate and my price has gone up as expected (minus a little loyalty bonus).

The bigger one is on a 2-year fix until mid-July 22.

I have manged to bag a bonus or two for finding Octopus a new customer.

Because my "credit" balance is about a month or so ahead of of my monthly usage, both "DD" debits have yet to be increased.

For the moment we are sagely in low usage Summer - so it is time to build up a plan B for next winter - HAVE YOU SEEN THE PRICE OF OIL/KEROSENE/PARAFFIN ?!! [Those of you on Electricity and Gas are still living in fool's paradise.].

Personally, the only beefs I have with our "let us defeat Putin" stance are:

Why has the standard daily charge headed up towards £0.50 a day? (Don't forget the 5% VAT "profit" included in the figure, collected by the Government and then going to be returned to us customers as a loan).

Why was the government allowed to chicken out of the concept of "net metering" - For those generating their own electricity, especially new generators; they should have an EXPORT meter and simply have their exported generation taken off their bill for imported electricity.  If they did not want to export their generation and stuff it into a wasteful hot water tank or an expensive battery system - good luck to them. Personally, I think there will be lots of past-their-prime L-ION, ex electric and hybrid cars, on the second-hand market soon. 

My Plan B? I am busy cutting up logs supplied cheaply by the spring climate change storms.

[When the electricity goes off, I can cook a simple hot meal on top of the log stove.]

Welcome back to 1974 etc.

NameWithheld

Octopus haven't asked me to increase my direct debit yet. In fact their website still has my old direct debit as my recommended payment. But I decided to increase mine to £250. Why £250? Because it maximises my Santander cash back, and it is also roughly what I estimate I'll need over the next 12 months, ignoring the October price rise. 

Tiger_greeneyes

molerat said:

Tiger_greeneyes said:

pochase said:

Tiger_greeneyes said:

MSE_Petar said:

At least 30% of British Gas, Octopus Energy and Shell Energy customers who were in credit and on price-capped tariffs told the UK’s biggest consumer website, MoneySavingExpert.com (MSE), that they've seen their direct debits double – even though the price cap rise is half that, at 54%. Across all firms, 25% of customers in this situation reported direct debits doubling or more.

Read the full story:
'30% of British Gas, Octopus & Shell Energy customers say their direct debits have DOUBLED'

If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.

I've looked at my payments for my electricity. In 10 months, my bills have trebled. I'm pretty useless with working out anything to do with figures since I had meningitis so can anyone tell me if that's how it should be, please, or should I get onto my electricity supplier (OutfoxtheMarket)?

Were you on a fixed tariff 10 months ago, that would explain a huge increase.

Can you please let us know

- old direct debit amount
- new direct debit amount
- how much energy did you use the last 12 months. gas and electricity, or if you are on E7 day and night units
- were you in credit or debit on your last bill and by how much?
- current unit rates and standing charges

Thank you - up until last June my bills were £39.25 per month. In April, ten months later they increased to £113.30. I wasn't on a fixed rate as far as I can remember. I'm £89 in credit. I'm a very low user plus I've stopped using my tv (except maybe an hour a day, on average) since beginning April to save more money. I don't have gas, I have oil fired heating and hot water and an electric shower.

Here's my usage table:

Apr 2021	148.69
May 2021	310.93
Jun 2021	402.60
Jul 2021	276.22
Aug 2021	347.72
Sep 2021	378.82
Oct 2021	332.12
Nov 2021	342.86
Dec 2021	375.41
Jan 2022	386.95
Feb 2022	316.66
Mar 2022	416.32
Apr 2022	219.66
May 2022	144.34

Supplier	Outfox The Market
Tariff name	Fox Standard Elec
Tariff type	Electricity Only - Variable
Payment Method	Direct Debit
Day Rate	35.659p per kWh
Night Rate	23.463p per kWh

I don't use much electricity at night, I'm usually in bed early. My oil boiler was recently serviced and is working at 96% efficiency, apparently that's good for a 12 year old boiler but I'm not a high user of oil - 1200 litres lasts me almost a year.

Thanks again.

If those figures are monthly kWh then you are not a "low user", in fact just below average for an E7 user and above average if not using electric for heating.  Not using much at night could be putting you at a disadvantage on E7, what is your day / night split ?.  At the Oct 21 cap your use, at single rate, would have been around £78 pm and at the April 22 cap £109 pm.  I can't see how your actual use could have been £39 pm on SVR as last year I was on a very good deal and that use would have cost £45.

It was definitely £39 Here's a couple of screenshots showing the figures I've been paying. It looks like we were using more than £39 because they increased the DD last July. 

I thought that as there's only the two of us and we're very careful that we were low consumers - obviously we weren't careful enough. I refuse to have a smart meter, I don't have a water meter either, nor one for the boiler oil tank.

Anyway, I hope that helps?