More than 2.5 million people to be moved onto universal credit from today, leaving 900,000 worse off

andrewmp

OhWow said:

andrewmp said:

poppy12345 said:

calcotti said:

poppy12345 said:.. when they're invited to apply if their savings remain above £16,000 then it's ignored for 1 year.  

I’m not sure that is correct. Capital in excess of £16,000 is ignored. Logically therefore there will still be tariff income up to £16,000. However I don’t know if this is considered when calculating the transitional amount.

Ah ok, thanks. It would be interesting to know if the tariff income will apply because we'll be having even more threads about the transfer in the coming months.

Capital in excess of £16k is ignored in UC for 12 months, both for the financial conditions and tariff income. It is therefore also ignored when calculating any transitional element.

Capital up to £16k will lead to unearned income being included in the UC award immediately, but can also create (or increase) a transitional element.

Word for word that was said on https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/18241/P15 and they gave some links.

The post under that one has given an example of how this would work..

That's where I copied it from.

calcotti

Thanks.   

Tigsteroonie

Question about savings and potential deprivation of capital - whilst on CTC we have accumulated some savings (over £6k but under £16k) that are intended for a substantial family holiday to Florida in the next few years. If we are migrated to UC with those savings protected for the first year, and we then travel on said trip in year two spending the savings, might we be accused of deliberate deprivation? How could I evidence that this has been a long-term plan?

calcotti

There are no definitive answers for deprivation of capital. Every case has to be determined on a case by case basis by a Decision maker at the time. 

andrewmp

Tigsteroonie said:

Question about savings and potential deprivation of capital - whilst on CTC we have accumulated some savings (over £6k but under £16k) that are intended for a substantial family holiday to Florida in the next few years. If we are migrated to UC with those savings protected for the first year, and we then travel on said trip in year two spending the savings, might we be accused of deliberate deprivation? How could I evidence that this has been a long-term plan?

There's a chance (likelihood maybe with a holiday) they'll count it as notional capital.

The problem we/they have, is many people who do 'OK', perhaps because of tax credits, and have no dealings with the job centre, claim tx credits (which aren't/weren't technically benefits).

I'm guessing a fair few of those in a similar situation also have disabled children. It's commonplace for (at least one) parent(s) of disabled children to be unable to work long hours etc. Not so much of an issue with tax credits, but it'll become an issue soon.

It's not the place to discuss this rights or wrongs of this, but if they have any sense, they'll migrate everyone with an existing join centre relationship first and work from there.

OhWow

andrewmp said:

 tx credits (which aren't/weren't technically benefits).

Paid by the Welfare state to those on low income and not based on the contributions of the claimant: Tax Credit is a welfare benefit. Not to be confused with a tax benefit.

The UK also has the Tax Credit benefit listed under Public Funds. Public Funds are some benefits (not contribution based benefits), social housing, homelessness assistance and social care. Those who come to the UK on a UK visa, will have No Recourse to Public Funds as a stipulation of thier visa.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/public-funds--2/public-funds

"Public funds include a range of benefits that are given to people on a low income, as well as housing support. These are:

• income-based jobseeker’s allowance
• income support
• child tax credit
• universal credit
• working tax credit
• a social fund payment
• child benefit
• housing benefit
• council tax benefit
• council tax reduction
• domestic rate relief (Northern Ireland)
• state pension credit
• attendance allowance
• severe disablement allowance
• personal independence payment
• carer’s allowance
• disability living allowance
• an allocation of local authority housing
• local authority homelessness assistance

Public funds do not include benefits that are based on National Insurance contributions."

"Migrants with NRPF are usually not entitled to access the taxpayer funded benefits and services set out ats115 and rule 6."

Page 11

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1013601/public-funds-v18.pdf

For those who came to the UK under Free Movement, the UK brought in Right to Reside for UK benefits (Public Fund benefits). e.g JSA, Tax Credit

For those EEA citizens and non-EEA citizens in the UK under the UK's withdrawal agreement (called the EU Settlement Scheme). If the EEA citizen has only been granted Pre-Settles Status, they will need to have a benefits Right to Reside, to be given the low income public fund benefits,

https://www.supremecourt.uk/press-summary/uksc-2021-0008.html

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/housing-benefit-adjudication-circulars-2021/a52021-pre-settled-status-effect-of-the-court-of-appeal-decision-in-the-fratila-case

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/claiming-benefits-if-youre-from-the-EU/before-you-apply/check-if-you-have-the-right-to-reside-for-benefits/

Bizzywizard

Hi,

Can you help, I am really confused.

I checked my bank account and received the noral £143.90 on 26th April. Yesterday I noticed I had two further seperate payments one for £13.44 and the other £6.51 (the pennies might be slightly out) saying child tax credit. I have never applied for child tax credit and only ever received the £143.60 (as it was, I call it the family allowance). I have 2 kids (12 and 15) and both me and hubby work full time in our own business.

Will the new money replace the £143.90 a month and will the smaller money be weekly or is it one one lots of money. I cannot find this anywhere and have not email from the child credit lot. And I don't want to call them as I waid hours ;ast time.

Many thanks in advance.
Bizzy

sammyjammy

Interestingly once they receive notification that their legacy benefits will be stopped they have three month to make a claim for UC, if they don't meet that deadline they are no longer entitled to the transitional protection.

andrewmp

Bizzywizard said:

Hi,

Can you help, I am really confused.

I checked my bank account and received the noral £143.90 on 26th April. Yesterday I noticed I had two further seperate payments one for £13.44 and the other £6.51 (the pennies might be slightly out) saying child tax credit. I have never applied for child tax credit and only ever received the £143.60 (as it was, I call it the family allowance). I have 2 kids (12 and 15) and both me and hubby work full time in our own business.

Will the new money replace the £143.90 a month and will the smaller money be weekly or is it one one lots of money. I cannot find this anywhere and have not email from the child credit lot. And I don't want to call them as I waid hours ;ast time.

Many thanks in advance.
Bizzy

The £143.60 (which should now be £145 for two children) probably represents 1/13th of a year's worth of Child Benefit (it's paid every 4 weeks, that's why you get 13 payments a year).

No idea about the extra payments, or what they mean.  

andrewmp

OhWow said:

andrewmp said:

 tx credits (which aren't/weren't technically benefits).

Paid by the Welfare state to those on low income and not based on the contributions of the claimant: Tax Credit is a welfare benefit. Not to be confused with a tax benefit.

If you look at this link:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tax-credits-and-some-benefits-are-ending-claim-universal-credit

It says 'The following 6 benefits and tax credits are ending for people of working age'.

I thought that might mean that they are different to a benefit, technically.  Otherwise you would think it would just say 'the following 6 benefits are ending.'

You mention Working/Child Tax Credits are public funds, that I don't doubt. However, based on the above, it seems they are technically, for reasons unknown to me, not considered to be a benefit.