What happens if you can't afford to pay?

Sea_Shell

SAC2334 said:

Sea_Shell said:

SAC2334 said:

Credit meter debtors are either switched to prepayment meter mode if you have a smart meter or if you have a none smart meter then they will fit a smart meter and load the whole debt onto the meter and agree a weekly repayment amount . If you can t afford to pay then the meter go s to emergency credit then it will switch off all electric . Occupiers will have to cut down other none essentials .
The max debt repay used to be £16 a week max  £4 min ,this could have changed as its 5 years since I was on the job meter reading 
 .Anyone with as much as £800 arrears would be allocated £16 max weekly repay 
Handing over the debts to debt repay company would be a last resort 

What sort of timescales are we talking about here, from last top up (of any amount) to disconnection?

Emergency credit used to be about £5 when I was on the job .Now daily standing charge is  48 p  as well to be taken into account
..Depends on how many kwh s a day a person can manage to live on ?    . I m economising now and use around 4 kwh s a day at 27 p a kwh so on those figure living frugally the £5 would last maybe 3 .5 days  .if a person used  8 khw a day  the £5 would last  less than 2 days 

Thanks for that, but it wasn't really my question.   It's not so much how long a small top up would last, but at what point would the meter actually cut you off if you didn't make any top up?

In time or kWh.

So you use all your (any) actual credit, then use all emergency credit, then...how much debt balance can you accrue before it pulls the plug.

Just trying to understand the system.

Mstty

t0rt0ise said:

What about those of us in band E or F social housing. Are you assuming we are wealthy too? Or do you expect us to move. Where to?

Hi Tortoise,

The theme of my thought process is more to do with "tough" decisions. I have learnt through the years that the earlier you make the tough choices the better it is and the quicker you are stress free and the better it is long term.

What I am trying to get across is that stopping at band D was not a bad stab in the dark for the £150 council tax rebate as in general band E and above property owners have options.

You mentioned "Are you assuming we are wealthy too". No I have not directed this at you as being wealthy and there will always be exceptions to any thought process.

So in your individual case I presume you are in social housing in band E or F? Do you have options as well? Could you ask for a downsize to a smaller but better, more insulated property at a lower band and cheaper ongoing energy and other costs?

If you are not using every single room and space in your housing association property you could save circa £150-300 a month with rent reduction/council tax band and ongoing costs included if you move down one run on the banding to save yourself money?

Later on in the thread I explained we had given serious though to downsizing and reducing our cost of living. We have calculated the current cost of living is costing us £400 a month more than it was this time last year so this is a good time for all to look at what they can do and nothing should be off the table.

Olinda99

as far as i understand it, once you use all your credit the meter switches to emergency credit.

once this is gone the meter cuts you off at once

if you subsequently put money in you need to pay the emergency credit back plus standing charges for the number of days elapsed since cutoff.

Sea_Shell

So you can still build up debt, if you don't put enough credit on it....but you would stay connected? Or do you still get cut off again?

Could you end up, as an example, owing £5 emergency, so you top that up, and it lasts 3 days.  You then go 3 days without electric, then top up another £5, but now you owe £5 PLUS 3 days standing charge, so you get further behind?

pochase

My understanding is that the emergency credit is immediately completely deducted from any top up you do, while other debt (from standing charge) can be paid back in instalments, so when you top up 20£ something like £6 to £10 will be used against your debt.

So in your scenario I would say topping up £5 will bring your debt for emergency credit down to 0, but you will have £1.50 debt from standing charges that need to be repaid from the next top ups. But as you have no money now in the meter you should go back into emergency credit. Will you still get the £5, or will you only get £3.50 as you already have £1.50 debt. Or maybe you get £4.25 because only 50% of your debt is calculated against the emergency credit.

To make things even more complicated there is also friendly credit, which is given over night and on weekend when shops might be closed.

For emergency credit and friendly credit it seems that you need to repay it in full before you can use it again. so in above scenario if part of your top up is used to pay off debt from a standing charge you will not be able to use emergency credit again. 

I think the problem with standing charges and debt will be much bigger with gas, as you will be able to live without gas for a while, but not that easy without electricity.

MWT

The part you have to be careful about is the standing charge, as that is not deducted while you are using emergency credit, but it does still accumulate.

If you are constantly going in and out of emergency credit you can build up an increasing debt due to the standing charges as they are not fully recovered with your first top-up if it is small and does not allow the full recovery of the emergency credit and the standing charges

Sea_Shell said:

Thanks for that, but it wasn't really my question.   It's not so much how long a small top up would last, but at what point would the meter actually cut you off if you didn't make any top up?

In time or kWh.

So you use all your (any) actual credit, then use all emergency credit, then...how much debt balance can you accrue before it pulls the plug.

Just trying to understand the system.

When your credit hits zero the energy is cut-off, the 'friendly credit' and the emergency credit are there to make sure you can get through the night so if you depend on using a key at a local store it is not going to cut you off at a time when you can't get a top-up, but once you have activated those safety nets and used them down to zero the meter will cut you off.

LADYXXMACBETH

So actually we could have thousands of people who will be accruing debt on top of debt because they can't afford to put money on the meter. 
I fear that some families will end up in a position where they have no heat and no electricity come winter time. None of this eat or heat that we have now, but literally neither eating or heating. I can just about afford my bill at the moment, but genuinely come winter I don't know what I'll do. 
I've already turned my heating down to 14c since Jan, don't turn on lights in the evening and I just think it's going to be hell for a lot of people. 
There's no sign of any help at all. 

Sea_Shell

I think further help WILL come, but for whom and how much, who knows!

Probably more targeted? 

But if anything, it's unlikely to be announced until the October 22 cap is calculated and announced....almost simultaneously, like they did for the April one.

So not much anyone can do but sit tight, use less (if at all possible) and where people have gaps in their energy knowledge....learn how the whole thing works.

If nothing else, know your own personal annual usages in KWHs.... not in £££s.

Gerry1

LADYXXMACBETH said:

I can just about afford my bill at the moment, but genuinely come winter I don't know what I'll do. 
I've already turned my heating down to 14c since Jan, don't turn on lights in the evening and I just think it's going to be hell for a lot of people. 
There's no sign of any help at all. 

As previously suggested, did you contact Citizens Advice to check that you're getting all the benefits to which you are entitled?

greyteam1959

wild666 said:

LADYXXMACBETH said:

I'm concerned coming towards this winter what happens if I can't pay. 
I'm already struggling to afford my £228 DD and it will go up in October. 
I'm assuming that they would force me to have a prepayment meter put in, but what happens when you can't put money into it? Do you just go without? 
What happens when you don't put money into it? Where does the debt go? If it goes to a debt collection agency and you're already in debt then it won't get paid. 
It's slightly hypothetical, but I think it could be a reality for some come this winter. 

Do you leave loads of appliances in standby mode? There are only three that need to be on 24/7 and they are the fridge, freezer and router everything else can be switched off at the socket when not in use, even the cooker and washing machine if you can access the sockets and the microwave if you have one they are all using vampire power. I'm saving £18 per month by switching everything not in use off at the socket. Leave nothing plugged in that you aren't using and you will soon see the savings.

In the case of gas try lowering the temperatures on the boiler to 50 degrees for water and 55 degrees for heating and turning down the thermostat to 18 degrees, this step might have to be done by lowering the thermostat by one degrees per week until you get to 18 degrees or lower in a well insulated home.

People say it's only a few pounds here and there by turning appliances off but the savings do mount up over the year if you want to save money.

You say you are saving £18 per month by turning off everything at the socket !!
I don't believe your figures.