UC LCWRA appeal

Spoonie_Turtle

Why do you think you would have got LCWRA in 2019? which descriptor? 

I'm not asking for this in this claim, but from end of 2018 to mid 2020 my eye condition was severe that work was impossible. This is the reason I had to come to UC, I was told i can't work so can't claim tax credits anymore. 

…

Presumably you agree with the tribunal that on the date of your decision in September 2021 you did not meet any of the conditions for LCWRA?

No, I don't agree. The nature of my conditions means it's not viable to stay in employment and i'm affected more than 50% of the year.

You've still not actually specified which LCWRA descriptor(s) you think you should have met then or now.  LCW already acknowledges that you can't work.

Muttleythefrog

As above which descriptor for LCWRA do you or did you think applies to you?

You state "The nature of my conditions means it's not viable to stay in employment and i'm affected more than 50% of the year." is not a relevant descriptor and does not seem to relate to any...
...unless you're saying you think it means "‘you suffer from some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement and, by reasons of such disease or disablement; there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person if you were found not to have limited capability for work-related activity'"?

xxxxxxxx

I have read more of your thread now:

tifo said:

Until then,  you have absolutely no chance of appealing on grounds that you were assessed in 2021 when if you had been assessed in 2019 you would have passed for LCWRA. No chance what so ever.

I'm not asking for this. That's a separate complaint (not claim) and the DWP accept their mistake. The claim should've been referred to an assessor in July 2019 but wasn't.

In their tribunal bundle the DWP say my application for a WCA was accepted in March 2019.

It is good that you are not asking for that. Your use of the word "claim" is confusing.  
Your UC claim first started in February 2019. Has your UC claim been continuously open since that date or has your UC been closed mulitiple times?
If multiple UC claims, tell me the dates of open and closure and the reason why each UC claim was closed.
*Although this is now irrelevant 

You appear to be using the word "claim" to represent a request for a health referral. This is not the correct use of that word. The word "claim" in our context is simply your "Claim for Universal Credit" it started in February 2019 and has apparently been continuously open from then until now.

tifo said:

Why do you think you would have got LCWRA in 2019? which descriptor? 

I'm not asking for this in this claim, but from end of 2018 to mid 2020 my eye condition was severe that work was impossible. This is the reason I had to come to UC, I was told i can't work so can't claim tax credits anymore. 

There is that word again.  
I take it, your Main Health Condition in 2019 was your eyesight? 
Could you read your normal postal letters electricity bills etc or did you use a magnifying glass to read with? 
In 2019 was it both eyes or just one eye? Was one eye better than the other?
In 2019 when you completed the first UC50 Health Questionnaire, did you complete a paper UC50 questionnaire yourself? 

tifo said:

What descriptors and points were you awarded by the Tribunal for LCW? 

2 for help with therapy and 6 for walking up to 200 metres, then LCW under risk.

"Help with Therapy" is not a descriptor and there are no "2 points" for anything. 
So you were granted LCW on risk because you did not score enough points....OK.  

tifo said:

Presumably you agree with the tribunal that on the date of your decision in September 2021 you did not meet any of the conditions for LCWRA?

No, I don't agree. The nature of my conditions means it's not viable to stay in employment and i'm affected more than 50% of the year.

That is not a reason for LCWRA
What is affecting you 50% of the year?

tifo said:

What date did UC apply your LCW from? Ask them on your journal if you don't know. 

The tribunal from June 2021 for 12 months but DWP did it for 15 months so until Sept 2023.

You are confused, Tribunals do not determine the date that LCW or LCWRA is awarded from unless the appeal is about this question specifically, which yours was not.  
What I gather from this, is that your initial UC decision was in June 2021 and the Tribunal overturned the UC decision which was made in June 2021 with a recommendation of a 12 month prognosis (from the date of tribunal decision 8 June 2022) and the DWP put it on for 15 months.  
What I was asking you is what date did the DWP start the award of LCW from? 
It should look something like this:
Limited Capability for Work   start date: 15/02/2019    36 months  end date 23/06/2022
Limited Capability for Work   start date: 24/06/2022    15 months  
* It makes no difference now (see below).

tifo said:

Did you get any arrears paid or owed as a result of LCW? < do you think you should have got any arrears via the work allowance?

No, there is no allowance for LCW after April 2017.

That is not what I asked you. I asked if you had expected to get any arrears due to the Work Allowance which will have resulted from your being placed in LCW?   Now that I have read more of your thread, I know that you have already had the Work Allowance due you having a child or Young Person.  Therefore you cannot get any arrears no matter what date the DWP have awarded LCW from.... so the question above "What date did they award LCW from?" is no longer anything more than a curiosity. 

tifo said:

A new condition of cateracts will not likely put you in LCWRA - what LCWRA descriptor do you think you now meet with cateracts?

I don't know yet, but the clinician advised not to use screens as much as it exacerbates the condition and I have vision in only that eye.

Ok, so you can still read your postal mail with the "good" eye (which is "good", left or right?)
Do you need a magnifying glass or glasses to read with your "good" eye?  

Is your other eye blind? (which is blind, left or right?) unable to read with this eye even using a magnifying glass?

If your new eye condition is cateracts, what was your eye condition called in 2019?

tifo

xxxxxxxx said:

I have read more of your thread now:

tifo said:

Until then,  you have absolutely no chance of appealing on grounds that you were assessed in 2021 when if you had been assessed in 2019 you would have passed for LCWRA. No chance what so ever.

I'm not asking for this. That's a separate complaint (not claim) and the DWP accept their mistake. The claim should've been referred to an assessor in July 2019 but wasn't.

In their tribunal bundle the DWP say my application for a WCA was accepted in March 2019.

It is good that you are not asking for that. Your use of the word "claim" is confusing.  
Your UC claim first started in February 2019. Has your UC claim been continuously open since that date or has your UC been closed mulitiple times?
If multiple UC claims, tell me the dates of open and closure and the reason why each UC claim was closed.
*Although this is now irrelevant 

You appear to be using the word "claim" to represent a request for a health referral. This is not the correct use of that word. The word "claim" in our context is simply your "Claim for Universal Credit" it started in February 2019 and has apparently been continuously open from then until now.

My UC claim has been continuous since Feb 2019 to present and up to the date of the MR in October 2021 I was submitting fit notes (unfit to work), then DWP said no longer required. The last fit note was from Sept 2021 to Dec 2021, altogether from Feb 2019 to Dec 2021. The tribunal commented on this saying there were no fit notes in 2022, but the only reason I submitted them was for the DWP, I have no need for them otherwise and the DWP said they don't want them anymore.

DWP don't believe fit notes anyway and all they used them for was not to ask for work search commitments until they've done a WCA after which I was told I no longer need to submit fit notes because i'm fit for full work search.

Sorry, i thought the referral for WCA was a claim for LCW/LCWRA.
 

tifo said:

Why do you think you would have got LCWRA in 2019? which descriptor? 

I'm not asking for this in this claim, but from end of 2018 to mid 2020 my eye condition was severe that work was impossible. This is the reason I had to come to UC, I was told i can't work so can't claim tax credits anymore. 

There is that word again.  
I take it, your Main Health Condition in 2019 was your eyesight? 
Could you read your normal postal letters electricity bills etc or did you use a magnifying glass to read with? 
In 2019 was it both eyes or just one eye? Was one eye better than the other?
In 2019 when you completed the first UC50 Health Questionnaire, did you complete a paper UC50 questionnaire yourself? 

I can only see from the right eye, the left eye is blind. The left blind eye is the one with the main conditions, because I cannot see I only went to the GP then referred to hospital when it got painful and symptoms appeared in October 2018. Anyone with vision would have noticed vision problems.

I completed the UC50 myself in April 2019 and March 2020.

tifo said:

What descriptors and points were you awarded by the Tribunal for LCW? 

2 for help with therapy and 6 for walking up to 200 metres, then LCW under risk.

"Help with Therapy" is not a descriptor and there are no "2 points" for anything. 
So you were granted LCW on risk because you did not score enough points....OK.

Yes, sorry, you're right, the 2 points were for my PIP assessment in needing help for eye drops (up to 3.5 hours) in daily living and 0 points for mobility whereas for WCA the tribunal gave 6 points for mobility then LCW under 'risk'.

tifo said:

Presumably you agree with the tribunal that on the date of your decision in September 2021 you did not meet any of the conditions for LCWRA?

No, I don't agree. The nature of my conditions means it's not viable to stay in employment and i'm affected more than 50% of the year.

That is not a reason for LCWRA
What is affecting you 50% of the year?

My eye conditions and chronic gout separately affect me more than 50% of the year. The reason I said 'viable' is because, due to the random number of days I would need to be off work because of my conditions means it would be difficult to stay in employment, whether employed or self employed (and with MIF). What employer would let me take random days off for an unknown amount of days or weeks?

tifo said:

What date did UC apply your LCW from? Ask them on your journal if you don't know. 

The tribunal from June 2021 for 12 months but DWP did it for 15 months so until Sept 2023.

You are confused, Tribunals do not determine the date that LCW or LCWRA is awarded from unless the appeal is about this question specifically, which yours was not.  
What I gather from this, is that your initial UC decision was in June 2021 and the Tribunal overturned the UC decision which was made in June 2021 with a recommendation of a 12 month prognosis (from the date of tribunal decision 8 June 2022) and the DWP put it on for 15 months.  
What I was asking you is what date did the DWP start the award of LCW from? 
It should look something like this:
Limited Capability for Work   start date: 15/02/2019    36 months  end date 23/06/2022
Limited Capability for Work   start date: 24/06/2022    15 months  
* It makes no difference now (see below).

The assessment decision was in October 2021 and the tribunal overturned this in June 2021 and recommended that I not be reassessed for 12 months but the DWP set it for 15 months. The tribunal didn't give any other dates so i don't know if they gave LCW from Feb 2019? Probably not because it's in the past, there's no payment for it and I already had a work allowance because of a child.

In any case, the DWP made me complete a second UC50 in March 2020 so any award would've gone to this not 2019, though in the appeal bundle the DWP said they accepted my request for an assessment in March 2019.

tifo said:

Did you get any arrears paid or owed as a result of LCW? < do you think you should have got any arrears via the work allowance?

No, there is no allowance for LCW after April 2017.

That is not what I asked you. I asked if you had expected to get any arrears due to the Work Allowance which will have resulted from your being placed in LCW?   Now that I have read more of your thread, I know that you have already had the Work Allowance due you having a child or Young Person.  Therefore you cannot get any arrears no matter what date the DWP have awarded LCW from.... so the question above "What date did they award LCW from?" is no longer anything more than a curiosity. 

See above answer.

tifo said:

A new condition of cateracts will not likely put you in LCWRA - what LCWRA descriptor do you think you now meet with cateracts?

I don't know yet, but the clinician advised not to use screens as much as it exacerbates the condition and I have vision in only that eye.

Ok, so you can still read your postal mail with the "good" eye (which is "good", left or right?)
Do you need a magnifying glass or glasses to read with your "good" eye?  

Is your other eye blind? (which is blind, left or right?) unable to read with this eye even using a magnifying glass?

If your new eye condition is cateracts, what was your eye condition called in 2019?

I can read postal mail with my good right eye. I don't need any aids other than glasses.

My left eye is totally blind, no light perception. This had (and still has) uveitis, iritis, neovascular glaucoma, phthisis bulbi from 2019 resulting in inflammation, high eye pressure (35 - 50 mmHg), migraines and, in 2019, tears most of the time also affecting the right vision eye. Very severe and painful for half of 2019 then slowly getting better but not until mid 2020 when the severe pains stopped. Now they're moderate or mild. In 2019 it felt like nails being hammered into the eye and the severe migraine to the left side (left eye) at the same time. I could not rest many days or sleep many nights.

The right eye now has a cortical cataract. I had a retinal tear in Jan 2020 which was operated on during the hospital appointment, which I have every 6 months. The last 2 in May and November this year when the clinician said i've a cataract in it.

Answers in bold italics  ... sorry if I seem confused with 'claim' for LCW/LCWRA, i thought it's a claim within UC.

tifo

When i made the WCA application I didn't know they assess you on how you are on the day of the assessment only. Otherwise I would have pushed the DWP in 2019, or had someone else do it, if i'd known and of course I did now know that covid will come and the DWP will delay my assessment for a year, then a year and half again. All this helped them.

It all seems so unfair.

xxxxxxxx

tifo said:

The tribunal from June 2021 for 12 months but DWP did it for 15 months so until Sept 2023.

&

tifo said:

The assessment decision was in October 2021 and the tribunal overturned this in June 2021 and recommended that I not be reassessed for 12 months but the DWP set it for 15 months. The tribunal didn't give any other dates so i don't know if they gave LCW from Feb 2019? Probably not because it's in the past, there's no payment for it and I already had a work allowance because of a child.

Ok so your tribunal was June 2022 not June 2021.  

tifo said:

The tribunal commented on this saying there were no fit notes in 2022, but the only reason I submitted them was for the DWP, I have no need for them otherwise and the DWP said they don't want them anymore. 

That was a good and correct reply you gave the Tribunal.

tifo said:

The assessment decision was in October 2021 and the tribunal overturned this in June 2021 and recommended that I not be reassessed for 12 months but the DWP set it for 15 months. The tribunal didn't give any other dates so i don't know if they gave LCW from Feb 2019? Probably not because it's in the past, there's no payment for it and I already had a work allowance because of a child..

They should have awarded it from Feb 2019, I only mentioned it because it can result in arrears being owed - but not in your case.

tifo said:

In any case, the DWP made me complete a second UC50 in March 2020 so any award would've gone to this not 2019, though in the appeal bundle the DWP said they accepted my request for an assessment in March 2019.

That is not the way it works, should still have awarded from Feb 2019.

You would very likely have been found capable for work in 2019 and maybe on appeal given LCW on risk.

You are still, now in 2022, very likely on a new condition to be found capable for work and maybe given risk LCW on appeal by a lenient Tribunal.  

From what you have written, you did not in 2019, meet any LCWRA descriptor and you do not now, meet any LCWRA descriptor.

I suggest you let it go, that you think you have been robbed of "your LCWRA entitlement".

xxxxxxxx

tifo said:

When i made the WCA application I didn't know they assess you on how you are on the day of the assessment only. Otherwise I would have pushed the DWP in 2019, or had someone else do it, if i'd known and of course I did now know that covid will come and the DWP will delay my assessment for a year, then a year and half again. All this helped them.

It all seems so unfair.

The DWP would have ignored you. However, on the first failure to return questionnaire, had you known what to do, you could have phoned the assessment centre and asked if your referral was live again, and then you could have pushed the DWP to refer you again because they had forgotten to do it.

For you it might have been unfair  (but likely would have been the same decision.)  For others the fact the DWP take so long sometimes goes in the claimant's favour.   They might start with a broken finger and 2 years later find they have been diagnosed with cancer,  the decision would be based on the cancer and the arrears would be from the date of the broken finger.

tifo

xxxxxxxx said:

Ok so your tribunal was June 2022 not June 2021. 

Yes, sorry, that was a spelling error.

tifo said:

The tribunal commented on this saying there were no fit notes in 2022, but the only reason I submitted them was for the DWP, I have no need for them otherwise and the DWP said they don't want them anymore. 

That was a good and correct reply you gave the Tribunal.

They still put it in their statement of reasons though.

tifo said:

In any case, the DWP made me complete a second UC50 in March 2020 so any award would've gone to this not 2019, though in the appeal bundle the DWP said they accepted my request for an assessment in March 2019.

You are still, now in 2022, very likely on a new condition to be found capable for work and maybe given risk LCW on appeal by a lenient Tribunal.  

From what you have written, you did not in 2019, meet any LCWRA descriptor and you do not now, meet any LCWRA descriptor.

Below is what I was like for all of 2019 and some of 2020, in severe pain most of the time with a flaming eye and migraines. There is no way I was capable of work.







And from mid 2020 still to present day.

Please see above. The left eye is much smaller now as it's deflating from the start of the conditions in 2018.

The hospital have photos of my eye in 2019 which will show it not only open with the inflammation but internal as well. I was going to ask for them for any appeal.

tifo

The gout affects me in the majority too though i've not uploaded pics at the moment. And it affected me in 2019/2020 too.

born_again

But how does your eye affect the pip descriptors?

As has been said. Pip is not based on conditions, only how they effect your daily life fitting into the descriptors.