Help with partner moving in

Life__Goes__On

calcotti said:

Life__Goes__On said:

So it very clear they must share the same household to be "LTAMC" under UC, unlike it was previously  at some point in time. .

The HMRC guidance you quoted is for Tax Credits specifically for which the rules were different to DWP benefits. For DWP benefits the rules haven’t changed.

Although it was from a Tax Credit it states.

"Since 1977 the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP - formerly the Benefits Agency) has followed a standard approach to the question "

That showed what the DWP used


https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/claimant-compliance-manual/ccm15040

"Since 1977 the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP - formerly the Benefits Agency) has followed a standard approach to the question of whether a man and woman are living together based on a list of criteria to be considered both individually and as a whole. Working Families’ Tax Credit (WFTC) adopted the same criteria and this has continued for WTC and CTC. This approach ensures unmarried couples are not treated any more or less favourably than married couples.


As stated in he compliance manual,  Tax Credits followed the same criteria. so the rules were not different  from the DWP.

calcotti

Life__Goes__On said:

Although it was from a Tax Credit is clearly states.

"Since 1977 the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP - formerly the Benefits Agency) has followed a standard approach to the question "

That showed what the DWP used


https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/claimant-compliance-manual/ccm15040

"Since 1977 the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP - formerly the Benefits Agency) has followed a standard approach to the question of whether a man and woman are living together based on a list of criteria to be considered both individually and as a whole. Working Families’ Tax Credit (WFTC) adopted the same criteria and this has continued for WTC and CTC. This approach ensures unmarried couples are not treated any more or less favourably than married couples.

Tax Credits are not a DWP Benefit, they came under HMRC and the rules are slightly different than for DWP benefits. The main difference I recall is that people who remain married but are living apart can still be treated as a couple for Tax Credits but will not be for DWP benefits.

Guidance for DWP benefits is contained within Decision Makers Guide, not HMRC manuals.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/decision-makers-guide-staff-guide

Life__Goes__On

calcotti said:

Tax Credits are not a DWP Benefit, they came under HMRC and the rules are slightly different than for DWP benefits. The main difference I recall is that people who remain married but are living apart can still be treated as a couple for Tax Credits but will not be for DWP benefits.

Guidance for DWP benefits is contained within Decision Makers Guide, not HMRC manuals.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/decision-makers-guide-staff-guide

The HMRC manual states that they copied the DWP " adopted the same criteria"
Why would HMRC state using the same criteria,  if there were differences?

The manuals you have links to

• Universal Credit
• Personal Independence Payment
• contribution-based Jobseeker’s Allowance and contribution-based Employment and Support Allowance for people who are eligible for Universal Credit

Not the legacy benefits such as ESA income based, and all updated in 2022.


Att some point in time the rule of being a "couple"  have changed.

Spoonie_Turtle

Life__Goes__On said:

calcotti said:

Tax Credits are not a DWP Benefit, they came under HMRC and the rules are slightly different than for DWP benefits. The main difference I recall is that people who remain married but are living apart can still be treated as a couple for Tax Credits but will not be for DWP benefits.

Guidance for DWP benefits is contained within Decision Makers Guide, not HMRC manuals.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/decision-makers-guide-staff-guide

The HMRC manual states that they copied the DWP " adopted the same criteria"
Why would HMRC state using the same criteria,  if there were differences?

The manuals you have links to

• Universal Credit
• Personal Independence Payment
• contribution-based Jobseeker’s Allowance and contribution-based Employment and Support Allowance for people who are eligible for Universal Credit

Not the legacy benefits such as ESA income based, and all updated in 2022.


Att some point in time the rule of being a "couple"  have changed.

Did you read the link?

The DMG - to which calcotti linked - is for legacy benefits.  The ADM is for UC, PIP, NS-JSA / ESA.

"DWP decision makers now use Advice for decision making (instead of the DMG) for decisions that involve:

• Universal Credit
• Personal Independence Payment
• contribution-based Jobseeker’s Allowance and contribution-based Employment and Support Allowance for people who are eligible for Universal Credit"

Here is the relevant part of the DMG for determining coupleship for legacy (DWP) benefits
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/658225/dmgch11.pdf

Life__Goes__On

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Here is the relevant part of the DMG for determining coupleship for legacy (DWP) benefits
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/658225/dmgch11.pdf

At the bottom of the page "updated October 2017".

Like I said at some point in time the rules have changed,

If you go back in time on this  forum.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/25726697/#Comment_25726697

"Just because you dont live together dosnt mean that you are not classed as LTAMAW by DWP, the DWP consider many aspects of relationships, such as do you shop together? Do you eat together? and loads of other things including does he maintain his own household?, we get single parents here all the time that get called for IUC after somone reports them for LTAMAW."

Spoonie_Turtle

Life__Goes__On said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Here is the relevant part of the DMG for determining coupleship for legacy (DWP) benefits
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/658225/dmgch11.pdf

At the bottom of the page "updated October 2017".

Like I said at some point in time the rules have changed,

If you go back in time on this  forum.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/25726697/#Comment_25726697

"Just because you dont live together dosnt mean that you are not classed as LTAMAW by DWP, the DWP consider many aspects of relationships, such as do you shop together? Do you eat together? and loads of other things including does he maintain his own household?, we get single parents here all the time that get called for IUC after somone reports them for LTAMAW."

So it means they've not changed the rules since then for legacy benefits, so there's been no need to update.

You know, it would be far less frustrating if you would actually read what was linked to.

11051 Two people who are neither married to each other nor a civil partner of each other must be members of the same household if they are to be treated as LTAMC and thus a couple.
11052 Household is not defined in legislation. It should be given its normal everyday meaning. It is a domestic establishment containing the essentials of home life. Household and home are not the same1. Household may refer to people held together by a particular kind of tie, even if temporarily separated2
              1 R(SB) 4/83; 2 Santos v Santos [1972] All ER 246

calcotti

It’s all irrelevant to OP’s question anyway.

Life__Goes__On

Spoonie_Turtle said:

So it means they've not changed the rules since then for legacy benefits, so there's been no need to update.

You know, it would be far less frustrating if you would actually read what was linked to.

11051 Two people who are neither married to each other nor a civil partner of each other must be members of the same household if they are to be treated as LTAMC and thus a couple.
11052 Household is not defined in legislation. It should be given its normal everyday meaning. It is a domestic establishment containing the essentials of home life. Household and home are not the same1. Household may refer to people held together by a particular kind of tie, even if temporarily separated2
              1 R(SB) 4/83; 2 Santos v Santos [1972] All ER 246

I used "rules"  where I shouldn't have, the rules are the same, as is the law, and for that i apologise for.

What I meant (and should have said)  is the guidance has changed. As shown by what I had linked to, to what you linked to.