Map query

morgan98

Hi All,

I recently took the risk to buy a house. The house has a covenant imposed on it from the area from 1800. The details of the covenant are in our Land Registry Official Copy Register for our address but there is no record of the next door house "owning" the covenant in their Land Registry Official Copy Register. If the current owners sold the house next door, is there any way new owners would be aware of the covenant if they weren’t informed by the current owners as nothing comes up against the address in the land registry?

Many Thanks

Woolsery

I'm sure your neighbours would be asked about any covenants relating to their property and close neighbours' in the course of conveyancing, so even if it is not on their mental radar at present, it's likely to be so when they sell.

How did your solicitor react to the "additional clause which stated that the covenant clauses can be changed at any time."? Did it actually say that the covenant may be subject to variation with the agreement of both parties. There's quite a big difference  between 'can' and 'may' or whatever words were used in this context. I couldn't imagine solicitors would allow their clients to enter into an open-ended agreement to accept unknown restrictions at some unspecified time in the future!

I've a feeling others with more knowlege than me will be asking for the exact wording of the covenant. The devil will be in the detail.

canaldumidi

morgan98 said:

.....an additional clause which stated that the covenant clauses can be changed at any time. ...

Please quote the exact wording.

The current owners (I guess beneficiaries?).... just said to go ahead with any building work we wanted,

Naurally you got this in writing yes?

The details of the covenant are in our Land Registry Official Copy Register for our address but there is no record of the next door house "owning" the covenant in their Land Registry Official Copy Register.

My guess is (please confirm) that there is a separate document (a Transfer? A Deed?) specifying the covenants, and your LR Title refers to this, yes?

Who holds the original and/or copies?

GDB2222

It’s not clear from the op who has the benefit of the covenant. It might be the owners from time to time of the other house, or it might be personal. 

morgan98

Hi All, to answer all the questions above:

- The exact wording of the query regarding the benficiary making any changes is below. The solicitor said she wasnt there to advise but to make me aware of the contents of the convenant but suggested it was pretty open to be changed.

The Vendor reserves the right to vary or release the foregoing restrictions and stipulations or any of them and nothing herein

contained shall be deemed to impose or imply any restriction upon the manner in which the Vendor may use or develop his adjoining property '[next door house]' aforesaid AND nothing herein shall create or imply a Building Scheme"

- The beneficiary of the covenant is whoever lives next door as it runs with the land (as they sold the initial land to the first owner of my property).

- I havent got the agreement for the building work in writing as we havent started building work yet and we are awaiting plans to be drawn up but more importantly, (i presume) I'd need to involve solicitors. By doing this I thought that Id run the risk of a solicitor advising them that they should be asking us for money as the value of the house is likely to increase. Ideally id like the convenant removed.

- There is no separate document (that Im aware of). Its all contained within the Land Registry Official Copy Register under a number of bullet points.

There is also this section of the convenant. What does it mean? Ive recently being having a lot of medical trreatment so have mislaid my notes on what the solicitor mentioned..

The following are details of the covenants contained in the Transfer dated 11 December 1979 referred to in the Charges Register:- (I think the original owner of my house sold it in 1979)"The Purchasers for themselves and their successors in title and so as to bind the said land hereby transferred (so far as maybe) hereby jointly and severally covenant with the Vendor and her successors in title for the benefit of the remainder of her said property '[Next door house]' aforesaid at all times henceforth duly to observe and perform in Title number XYZSchedule of restrictive covenants continued relation to the land hereby transferred the restrictions and stipulations set out in the schedule to a Conveyance dated 28 October 1963 and made between the said [Man who owned house next door] (1) and[man he sold land to on which our house was built] (2) as though the land hereby transferred had been part of the land (now known as [our house] aforesaid) thereby conveyed PROVIDED ALWAYS that nothing herein contained shall render the Purchasers or any of their successors personally liable in respect of any breach of any provision of such schedule which is restrictive of the user of the land committed or suffered after they shall have parted with all interest in the property in respect of which such breach shalloccur"

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

user1977

morgan98 said:

The solicitor said she wasnt there to advise 

Eh? Your own solicitor didn't think it was within her remit to give you legal advice? Whose job did she think that might be?

canaldumidi

morgan98 said:

- The exact wording of the query regarding the benficiary making any changes is below. The solicitor said she wasnt there to advise but to make me aware of the contents of the convenant

You need to either 1) instruct your solicitor to provide proper legal advice or instruct a new solicitor.

 but suggested it was pretty open to be changed.

The Vendor reserves the right to vary or release the foregoing restrictions and stipulations or any of them and nothing herein

contained shall be deemed to impose or imply any restriction upon the manner in which the Vendor may use or develop his adjoining property '[next door house]' aforesaid AND nothing herein shall create or imply a Building Scheme"

This looks to me as if the retrictions etc are imposed on  the development by the vendor of 'his neighbouring property (ie yours). Which suggests not what you can do, but what he could do before selling to you.

But as I said erlier, you need to read the full original document, not the resume in the LR Title!

- I havent got the agreement for the building work in writing as we havent started building work yet and we are awaiting plans to be drawn up but more importantly, (i presume) I'd need to involve solicitors. By doing this I thought that Id run the risk of a solicitor advising them that they should be asking us for money as the value of the house is likely to increase. Ideally id like the convenant removed.

Ignore the covenant at your peril, though I am yet to be convinced about what it allows/restricts. Read the original document!

Removing the covenant will require the consent of the Beneficiary.

- There is no separate document (that Im aware of).  Yes there is and yes you are aware of it!  Its all contained within the Land Registry Official Copy Register under a number of bullet points. No, that is just a resume. Read the original!

....
The following are details of the covenants contained in the Transfer dated 11 December 1979 referred to in the Charges Register:- (I think the original owner of my house sold it in 1979).

There it is! Get a copy of the Transfer dated 11/12/79 and read it. That is where the covenants are laid out in full. That is the legal origin of the covenants.

"The Purchasers for themselves and their successors in title and so as to bind the said land hereby transferred (so far as maybe) hereby jointly and severally covenant with the Vendor and her successors in title for the benefit of the remainder of her said property '[Next door house]' aforesaid at all times henceforth duly to observe and perform in Title number XYZ

Schedule of restrictive covenants continued relation to the land hereby transferred the restrictions and stipulations set out in the schedule to a Conveyance dated 28 October 1963 and made between the said [Man who owned house next door] (1) and

[man he sold land to on which our house was built] (2) as though the land hereby transferred had been part of the land (now known as [our house] aforesaid) thereby conveyed PROVIDED ALWAYS that nothing herein contained shall render the Purchasers or any of their successors personally liable in respect of any breach of any provision of such schedule which is restrictive of the user of the land committed or suffered after they shall have parted with all interest in the property in respect of which such breach shall

occur"

Or possibly it's the Conveyance of 28/10/63 you need to read, since that appears to have a 'schedule of restrictive covenants'.

Get hold of both documents, either from your solicitor (who should anyway have sent them to you (though he sounds carp) or via form OC2 from the Land Registry here.

If you have difficulty either obtaining the two documents, or understanding them, make your solicitor get them and explain them.

Hopefully you are using a local solicitor, not a cheaponline one, and you can go in and sit down with him to discuss the documements so that you understand what you are buying.

morgan98

Hi,

Thanks for your advice. We've already bought the house (a few months ago) and the solicitor (a local one) said she couldnt find any other docs aside from the land registry document I refer to. Oh dear
Ill approach the land registry myself. Am i right in saying i need to apply for a copy of:
a) Conveyance dated 28/10/63
b) Transfer dated 11/12/79 

Thanks a lot for your help

canaldumidi

morgan98 said:

Hi,

Thanks for your advice. We've already bought the house ( a few months ago) and the solicitor (a local one) said she couldnt find any other docs aside from the land registry document i refer to. Oh dear
Ill approach the land registry myself. Thanks a lot for your help.

On the LR Title, next to the references to.those 2 documents, does it say "copy filed" or similar? If yes, the LR has a copy. If not, they may not have them, in which case yoiu may need to see if the original vendor or his heirs has a copy......

morgan98

Hi,
I have only 2 documents from the LR as part of the conveyancing process:
a) The Official Copy of Register of Title which is where I copied and pasted the information from above and 
b) Official Copy Title Plane which shows a map of the street and the boundary of the property highlighted in red.

Unfortunately, when looking through the Register of Title, it doesnt reference "copy filed" anywhere. As youve seen above it just refers to these docs in a couple of areas

- The following are details of the covenants contained in the Conveyance dated 28 October 1963 referred to in the Charges Register

- The following are details of the covenants contained in the Transfer dated 11 December 1979 referred to in the Charges Register:-

It has this below under the Charges Registered contd section:

This register contains any charges and other matters that affect the land.

1 A Conveyance of the land in this title and other land dated 22 December 1897 made between (1) Thomas  (Vendor) (2) Robert (3) Charles and Sarah  (Purchasers) contains covenants details of which are set out in the schedule of restrictive covenants hereto (I believe these are from years ago and affect all houses in the area so Im not too concerned about this)

2 A Conveyance of the land tinted pink on the filed plan dated 28 October 1963 made between (1) Jeremy X (Vendor) and (2) Paul Y (Purchaser) contains covenants details of which are set out in the schedule of restrictive covenants hereto. (These are lsited further down the LR doc and specific to this house)

3 The land tinted pink on the filed plan is subject to the following rights reserved by the Conveyance dated 28 October 1963 referred to above (this plan isnt within the LR doc - and the sol said she couldnt find it).

I can copy the whole LR doc if thats easier to see (removing names)?
It seems more complex than many other LR docs I've seen

Many Thanks

canaldumidi

Since those various documents are all referenced in the LR Title, they are all legally relevant. Just because they are very old does not necessarily mean they can be ignored. They still apply, otherwise they would not be there.

However, if the LR does not have copies, then the documents can either be requested from whoever might have a copy (hard to track down with very old docs) or perhaps they no longer exist. Who knows?