EV charging costs and calculation - Real world example. Check my figures?

DrEskimo

Bachelorplace said:

MX5huggy said:

This April the car has covered 828 miles. I’ve used 241kWh to charge it most of those cost me 5p so £12.05 or 1.45p per mile. I got a few free kWs from my Solar PV panels. Prices are higher now for new customers and mine will go up in September by 50% to 7.5p so £18 per month. 

MX5huggy said:

This April the car has covered 828 miles. I’ve used 241kWh to charge it most of those cost me 5p so £12.05 or 1.45p per mile. I got a few free kWs from my Solar PV panels. Prices are higher now for new customers and mine will go up in September by 50% to 7.5p so £18 per month. 

How does it know what the Zappi uses..??? If it is not split??

Anyway it seems I am paying.... a staggering... 19p per KWh!!! Is this a lot? I certainly sounds like it is compared to your 7p.

It appears that I use 164kwh per month on average without a car being charged...  to your... 500kwh right?

If I had a BMW iX which has a 111kw each charge would be 111 x 19p or £21.00 per full charge. If that car does 227 miles of real world range ( source https://bmwi.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1898912 ) then it might work out to be the equivalent of 85 miles per gallon if fuel is 1.62 per litre right? 

Miles 227 
Cost - £22.67
Fuel - 1.62
MPG 85
Cost per mile = 0.99p

Desiel car equivalent

Miles 227 
MPG 42
Cost £45.98 
Cost per mile = 0.202p 

Anyway...  So, either Scottish Power rip me off - or I am missing something???

£0.19/kWh is fine. It will soon go to around £0.30 when your fixed tariff ends.

Your example of the iX is when it's driven at 1 degree in Norway, so economy is reduced a lot. You can expect it to increase to around 300mi in average UK temps, and as high as 350 in 20 degrees+. 

You're missing a nought on your cost per mile for the EV by the way. The EV is ~£0.099 compared to the diesel. It costs about half the cost of a diesel when efficiency is at its lowest. Will probably be closer to £0.075/mile on average over the year.

Bachelorplace

So if Tesla charges 25p kWh, charging at home is hardly worth it by the time you have put in a £1500+ charger for the first couple/ 3 years its actually the same as not having a charger at home. 

Granted the charge I did was a con at 50p or what ever. How are these examples getting 7p if mine is 19p - I am not on a fixed that is the variable but sure it may go up again. 

DrEskimo

Bachelorplace said:

So if Tesla charges 25p kWh, charging at home is hardly worth it by the time you have put in a £1500+ charger for the first couple/ 3 years its actually the same as not having a charger at home. 

Granted the charge I did was a con at 50p or what ever. How are these examples getting 7p if mine is 19p - I am not on a fixed that is the variable but sure it may go up again. 

It doesn't cost £1500+ to get a charger installed. It depends entirely on what charger you want and how complicated the work is, but average is around half that based on my father in law (OLEV approved installer).

The cost of installing a charger that will last many many years (and you can take with you when you move) also goes towards convenience. It takes me less than 30secs to plug in when I get home and need a charge, and then that's it. I don't have to sit and wait for it.

The £0.075 is from Octopus GO. The night rate is substantially cheaper, but the day rate will be higher, so you need to look at the savings relative to the added cost of your day time electricity deal before deciding to switch.

Nebulous2

I'm only charging on public chargers, as I live in a listed building and can't get a home charger. All of our local authority ones, rapid and destination are 21p per unit. I've a Nissan leaf and efficiency has been quite poor over the winter, but is slowly improving as the weather warms.  I'm in Scotland and work 12 hour shifts, meaning a lot of my journeys are in the dark and cold. I went three months in the winter where my morning run wasn't above 3C. My commute costs about £4 a day in electric. My van costs about £9.50 a day for diesel. 

Figures for April:- 824 miles, 225kwh consumed, 36.1kwh regenerated. Cost of £47.24 or £5.73 per 100 miles, or 5.7p per mile. 

You've talked a lot about costs, what about driving it? I can't believe how enjoyable the leaf is to drive...... 

grumiofoundation

Nebulous2 said:

I'm only charging on public chargers, as I live in a listed building and can't get a home charger. All of our local authority ones, rapid and destination are 21p per unit. I've a Nissan leaf and efficiency has been quite poor over the winter, but is slowly improving as the weather warms.  I'm in Scotland and work 12 hour shifts, meaning a lot of my journeys are in the dark and cold. I went three months in the winter where my morning run wasn't above 3C. My commute costs about £4 a day in electric. My van costs about £9.50 a day for diesel. 

Figures for April:- 824 miles, 225kwh consumed, 36.1kwh regenerated. Cost of £47.24 or £5.73 per 100 miles, or 5.7p per mile. 

You've talked a lot about costs, what about driving it? I can't believe how enjoyable the leaf is to drive...... 

Can you get an normal outside plug installed? That is all we use.

Nebulous2

grumiofoundation said:

Nebulous2 said:

I'm only charging on public chargers, as I live in a listed building and can't get a home charger. All of our local authority ones, rapid and destination are 21p per unit. I've a Nissan leaf and efficiency has been quite poor over the winter, but is slowly improving as the weather warms.  I'm in Scotland and work 12 hour shifts, meaning a lot of my journeys are in the dark and cold. I went three months in the winter where my morning run wasn't above 3C. My commute costs about £4 a day in electric. My van costs about £9.50 a day for diesel. 

Figures for April:- 824 miles, 225kwh consumed, 36.1kwh regenerated. Cost of £47.24 or £5.73 per 100 miles, or 5.7p per mile. 

You've talked a lot about costs, what about driving it? I can't believe how enjoyable the leaf is to drive...... 

Can you get an normal outside plug installed? That is all we use.

Not really. I'd have to go across a pavement, and parking is limited to 45 minutes all day. There is a space sat the side of my house I could just about squeeze a car into, but I'd have to remove some flower beds first. It would also make getting out past the car a challenge. 

My home tariff is 19.5p per KWh and public charging is 21p, so very little in it..

mgfvvc

iwb100 said:

Genuine question. Round me the majority of people live in terraced houses with no drive and no parking other than on road. Many are along main roads. They all have cars. Can someone explain when the only option is EVs what are such residents supposed to be doing? How do they home charge? Or do half the population need to be charging elsewhere? 

...

Let’s say conservatively we’d need over half a million charging points. Where are they all going to go? 

Various solutions have been proposed. The two that spring to mind are charging points in lamp posts and "pop up" charging points in the pavements that extend when required and disappear when not in use.

Martyn1981

mgfvvc said:

iwb100 said:

Genuine question. Round me the majority of people live in terraced houses with no drive and no parking other than on road. Many are along main roads. They all have cars. Can someone explain when the only option is EVs what are such residents supposed to be doing? How do they home charge? Or do half the population need to be charging elsewhere? 

...

Let’s say conservatively we’d need over half a million charging points. Where are they all going to go? 

Various solutions have been proposed. The two that spring to mind are charging points in lamp posts and "pop up" charging points in the pavements that extend when required and disappear when not in use.

Hiya, you may also be interested in this variation on the pop up charger, where the EV owner has the 'pole' in the car, then plugs it into the pavement point.

This way reduces the install cost, so charge points could be placed at every or every other space, and no need to restrict spaces to EV's, or prosecute people for 'ice'ing' the space. Ideally, once folk in a street see plenty of charging points, they may be encouraged to get a PEV.

WHAT ARE WE HIDING?
DISCOVER FLAT & FLUSH
ON STREET EV CHARGING

Longer term there's also the possibility of induction charging, which is currently been tried out for commercial vehicles. It's a great way to add a bit of charge to BEV buses at some of the stops. There are losses, about 20% I believe, so about double normal charging losses, but lots of potential.

Even more questionable, but never say no, is induction charging on the move. Been tested in France over very short distances. The 'ultimate' goal would be to charge vehicles at around 7kW whilst driving in cities, as that would roughly cover energy consumption at 30mph.

Brave new World!

Ergates

Thrugelmir said:

DrEskimo said:

iwb100 said:

DrEskimo said:

Nope seems right. Added about 32kWh from the charge, and are getting about 3.5miles/kWh right?

So the charger must have been around £0.69/kWh, which of course is expensive.
If all you are every doing is using these high cost rapid chargers, then yes about as expensive as fuel, but even when I didn't have home charging I used a slower and cheaper AC charging when I could leave the car for long periods. Was around £0.18/kWh when I did this for a couple of years.

It does show the growing disparity in costs between those that can charge at home, and those that cant, and it's a real problem. I commuted ~75miles today and used about 23kWh of energy. Charging last night cost me £1.17.

Genuine question. Round me the majority of people live in terraced houses with no drive and no parking other than on road. Many are along main roads. They all have cars. Can someone explain when the only option is EVs what are such residents supposed to be doing? How do they home charge? Or do half the population need to be charging elsewhere? 

Right now there is about one charging point for every 10 full EVs. And even now there are reports of sometimes queuing and waiting and problems. People with EVs say it’s getting more difficult.

But let’s say that we have to suffer with just the 1:10 ratio that might be sub optimal but still in this country everything is sub optimal.

That means that even if we reduce cars on the roads by ten percent, that means we need something in the realm of 320,000 charging points. 

And that is based on the current situation where demand is mitigated as only people with drives or charging points at home are buying EVs. So the numbers I have here are not even going to come close to working.

Let’s say conservatively we’d need over half a million charging points. Where are they all going to go? 

 Getting the rest of the infrastructure to that level would do a lot to improve the situation.

There's the challenge. Care to put an estimate on the spend required and the physical infrastructure that's required. As we are merely scratching the surface of cheap wins currently. Very easy to be an alright Jack. 

Care to estimate the cost if we don't, as a species, get our CO2 production under control?

Ergates

Bachelorplace said:

Anyway it seems I am paying.... a staggering... 19p per KWh!!! Is this a lot? I certainly sounds like it is compared to your 7p.

We're paying a little over 27p per WKh, so 19p sounds great...