box junction penalty charge notice - worth appealing?

JaVo2004

I just got a penalty notice, watched the footage and can't believe how dumb i was.
This is Chamberlayne Road, London

https://youtu.be/MEDGNLnmJT0

I was driving from Cambridge, tired and was super late for an appointment. I don't even remember this happening whilst I was driving.

I have instructions on how to challenge the PCN but can't think of any grounds.

Im just angry at how much they are asking me to pay (£130, or £65 if I pay quickly, or £195 it takes me more than 28 days to pay).

And this is my second penalty in the space of 1 month.

I need to stop driving in London...

ontheroad1970

Bang to rights, I'm afraid.  You can only enter to turn right when it's not clear beyond the box.  if that car further on had closed the gap, you would have been able to clear, but that's no defence.

Ebe_Scrooge

You could challenge it on the grounds that you were tired and not paying proper attention - but then you'd probably find yourself hit with a "driving without due care and attention" rap on top of the box junction fine.

Really, sorry to say it looks like you were caught bang to rights, I can't see any grounds for appeal.  Annoying, I know, but I think you're just going to have to suck it up.

Car_54

Ebe_Scrooge said:

You could challenge it on the grounds that you were tired and not paying proper attention - but then you'd probably find yourself hit with a "driving without due care and attention" rap on top of the box junction fine.

No. The box junction is a civil matter, dealt with by the council - careless driving is a criminal offence. In the unlikely event that the council informed the police, it would be too late for them to issue a NIP.

facade

Car_54 said:

Ebe_Scrooge said:

You could challenge it on the grounds that you were tired and not paying proper attention - but then you'd probably find yourself hit with a "driving without due care and attention" rap on top of the box junction fine.

No. The box junction is a civil matter, dealt with by the council - careless driving is a criminal offence. In the unlikely event that the council informed the police, it would be too late for them to issue a NIP.

What about the statutory exemption where the Police could not with reasonable diligence ascertain the driver / RK's details in time to serve a NIP within the 14 days- (because the offence did not come to light within 14 days of the offence)? I understand this is how they prosecute youtubers posting incriminating video of themselves a month after they commit an offence.

Grey_Critic

No matter how much care you take getting *stranded* in a box junction is a daily hazard. Traffic in front suddenly stops and that is it. Whilst we leave a gap between the vehicle in front the question is just how much of a gap?

facade

Grey_Critic said:

No matter how much care you take getting *stranded* in a box junction is a daily hazard. Traffic in front suddenly stops and that is it. Whilst we leave a gap between the vehicle in front the question is just how much of a gap?

If the vehicle in front stops just outside the box, it doesn't matter how much space you left behind it, you will end up caught in the box. 

You can try the idea of moving as slowly as you possibly can, but usually a full light change is too long.

ontheroad1970

The point is to not enter the box until the exit from it is at least a car length clear.  Not really that difficult.

Car_54

facade said:

Car_54 said:

Ebe_Scrooge said:

You could challenge it on the grounds that you were tired and not paying proper attention - but then you'd probably find yourself hit with a "driving without due care and attention" rap on top of the box junction fine.

No. The box junction is a civil matter, dealt with by the council - careless driving is a criminal offence. In the unlikely event that the council informed the police, it would be too late for them to issue a NIP.

What about the statutory exemption where the Police could not with reasonable diligence ascertain the driver / RK's details in time to serve a NIP within the 14 days- (because the offence did not come to light within 14 days of the offence)? I understand this is how they prosecute youtubers posting incriminating video of themselves a month after they commit an offence.

Fair point!

MX5huggy

Op you have my sympathy, the fine exceeds the crime IMHO. 

MEM62

JaVo2004 said:

I need to stop driving in London...

That or you need to be more observant.  If I need to go into town I usually take the tube.  Driving in London just gets more and more stressful.