House Renovation Cost 2

propertyhunter

@DairyQueen - how big is your house out of interest (number of rooms)? I'm coming to a similar budget for a 3-bed detached, but all pipework and all-new electrics (going back to brick). 

DairyQueen

propertyhunter said:

@DairyQueen - how big is your house out of interest (number of rooms)? I'm coming to a similar budget for a 3-bed detached, but all pipework and all-new electrics (going back to brick). 

1500 sq ft without the extension and garage. Kitchen/diner, living room, study, utility, cloaks. 4 beds plus 2  tiny en suites and a smallish family bathroom. The pipework will be checked and pumps installed where required but no need to go back to brick (I hope). Are you extending too?

milltech

DairyQueen said:

Our project is the refurb of a neglected 1990s house, plus a kitchen extension with lantern roof. We have an architectural technician working on the project and he has produced the specs and plans. It sounds like the kind of pack your Spanish guy produced. The pack includes a 'statement of works' and the whole shamboozle was submitted to contractors when inviting to tender. We received three fixed price quotes in response and appointed our builder in December. Contractor is now on site and the architect's plans are constantly referenced.

Our architect organised the structural engineer and building control consultants, plus Certificate of lawful Development. He communicates with the builder on matters structural. He checks invoices, researches materials and products, negotiates prices, and handles all variations to the original SoW, amongst many other things.

He isn't cheap but has been worth his weight in gold as we are building project novices. We are spending a significant sum (for us) and he provides peace of mind.

Original poster here, thanks for the extensive response. If my budget doubles I can still afford it within the funds generated by the last sale, (not that I want to, fancied a nice 1955 MG TF with the change). I have already "done" the garage with electric door and car port. So far as the house is concerned I'm guessing I have a 30 foot x 6 foot single story extension to build for utility and two bathrooms, (lantern light to main bathroom in the middle of the run). The house is a 1925 bungalow so for the rest it's mostly knocking down some walls, adding supports and insulation, to create an open plan interior living - dining - kitchen 30'x24' to compliment the existing AGA, and a small loft room with Velux rather than dormer in the existing roof space, new engineered wood floors and doors, re-wire, and a new kitchen. Utility will be made up from old kitchen, only 2 years old, and I may get by borrowing some kitchen carcasing. There are two bedrooms, (to be boarded for carpets), one will get smaller to make a silly pokey entrance big enough for fat people.  I'll chase up the contact from the poster who mentioned names in the hope of finding someone like wot u have.

milltech

DairyQueen said:

milltech said:

DairyQueen said:

Our project is the refurb of a neglected 1990s house, plus a kitchen extension with lantern roof. We have an architectural technician working on the project and he has produced the specs and plans. It sounds like the kind of pack your Spanish guy produced. The pack includes a 'statement of works' and the whole shamboozle was submitted to contractors when inviting to tender. We received three fixed price quotes in response and appointed our builder in December. Contractor is now on site and the architect's plans are constantly referenced.

Our architect organised the structural engineer and building control consultants, plus Certificate of lawful Development. He communicates with the builder on matters structural. He checks invoices, researches materials and products, negotiates prices, and handles all variations to the original SoW, amongst many other things.

He isn't cheap but has been worth his weight in gold as we are building project novices. We are spending a significant sum (for us) and he provides peace of mind.

Are you in the UK and if so, could you put me in touch? This is exactly the sort of person I seek and even if not within striking distance of Worcestershire there may be a professional body that could help! Yes the Architect will supply the same as your guy.

Other side of the country from you but I believe that all architectural practices offer this kind of service. Worth enquiring with a few local to you?

FWIW I think others upthread may have a point re: your budget. Our budget is now almost double our original estimate. Building costs have gone through the roof (excuse pun) since the pandemic kicked-off and good builders are scarce. It has taken a year to complete the plans, process tenders and wait for our turn in the main contractor's queue (reputable company).

Our clay soil means pilings are required for our 4m x 4m extension. That has increased the cost to almost £70k (inc VAT) just for this element of the project. Even without the costly foundation, we wouldn't expect much change out of £55k for the extension. The cost of materials like steel and timber have suffered big price hikes, and the trades are making hay with equally large rate/wage increases as they are in such demand.

20% of the budget is handed to HMRC in the form of VAT, and the architect will cost 7.5%-12.5% of the building contract, plus another £2k-ish if you need a structural engineer, and a few hundred more for building control and planning. Net of those costs, your budget only allows £35k-£40k to cover the contractor, inc. all materials. Don't shoot the messenger but I doubt that will cover the materials in the current climate.

I don't want to alarm you but we are paying £228k inc VAT just for the contractor. One of the quotes came in at pushing £300k! (gulp)

That figure includes:

- orangery extension to kitchen - French doors to garden
- moving kitchen into current dining area, building pantry
- refit kitchen and utility
- total internal and external decoration
- refit 2 x bathrooms and cloakroom
- replace all windows and external doors
- new garage doors
- replace fascias, soffits and guttering
- repair render and weatherboarding
- new boiler and water softener
- remove small internal porch wall
- terracing and paving
- replace some radiators
- plus a few miscellaneous bits and bobs.

Our total budget (including appliances, fees, flooring, specialist insurance and contingency) is a shade under £275k against our original finger-in-the-air estimate of £150k. Our kitchen and bathroom fittings are mid range. The only top of the range materials are the new low maintenance windows and doors.

I think I'm doing exactly what you're doing, but hopefully being two bedrooms, ground floor, and building over an area half prepared already by removing a so-called conservatory I may get by. I always knew it might be more expensive and, well, I'll forget about that when it's done. I'm retired and divorced so the idea is to create a house in which I can entertain and which they will carry me out of in a box.

milltech

Ramouth said:

Try looking at the Chartered Institute of Architectural Technicians (CIAT) website to find a local architectural technician who can help with you drawing and specification package.  Or you could look for a builder who will take on some design responsibility - this way may be cheaper but will be far harder for you to control quality.

Thank you so much!  I've a list of several near me and will follow this up. Sounds just what I need and hopefully the cost of it will be met through efficiency savings and the lack of the extras or plan changes that always inflate.  I'll report back in due course!

Ramouth

milltech said:

Ramouth said:

Try looking at the Chartered Institute of Architectural Technicians (CIAT) website to find a local architectural technician who can help with you drawing and specification package.  Or you could look for a builder who will take on some design responsibility - this way may be cheaper but will be far harder for you to control quality.

Thank you so much!  I've a list of several near me and will follow this up. Sounds just what I need and hopefully the cost of it will be met through efficiency savings and the lack of the extras or plan changes that always inflate.  I'll report back in due course!

I hope it goes well for you and look forward to hearing how you get on.

BikingBud

milltech said:

DairyQueen said:

milltech said:

DairyQueen said:

Our project is the refurb of a neglected 1990s house, plus a kitchen extension with lantern roof. We have an architectural technician working on the project and he has produced the specs and plans. It sounds like the kind of pack your Spanish guy produced. The pack includes a 'statement of works' and the whole shamboozle was submitted to contractors when inviting to tender. We received three fixed price quotes in response and appointed our builder in December. Contractor is now on site and the architect's plans are constantly referenced.

Our architect organised the structural engineer and building control consultants, plus Certificate of lawful Development. He communicates with the builder on matters structural. He checks invoices, researches materials and products, negotiates prices, and handles all variations to the original SoW, amongst many other things.

He isn't cheap but has been worth his weight in gold as we are building project novices. We are spending a significant sum (for us) and he provides peace of mind.

Are you in the UK and if so, could you put me in touch? This is exactly the sort of person I seek and even if not within striking distance of Worcestershire there may be a professional body that could help! Yes the Architect will supply the same as your guy.

Other side of the country from you but I believe that all architectural practices offer this kind of service. Worth enquiring with a few local to you?

FWIW I think others upthread may have a point re: your budget. Our budget is now almost double our original estimate. Building costs have gone through the roof (excuse pun) since the pandemic kicked-off and good builders are scarce. It has taken a year to complete the plans, process tenders and wait for our turn in the main contractor's queue (reputable company).

Our clay soil means pilings are required for our 4m x 4m extension. That has increased the cost to almost £70k (inc VAT) just for this element of the project. Even without the costly foundation, we wouldn't expect much change out of £55k for the extension. The cost of materials like steel and timber have suffered big price hikes, and the trades are making hay with equally large rate/wage increases as they are in such demand.

20% of the budget is handed to HMRC in the form of VAT, and the architect will cost 7.5%-12.5% of the building contract, plus another £2k-ish if you need a structural engineer, and a few hundred more for building control and planning. Net of those costs, your budget only allows £35k-£40k to cover the contractor, inc. all materials. Don't shoot the messenger but I doubt that will cover the materials in the current climate.

I don't want to alarm you but we are paying £228k inc VAT just for the contractor. One of the quotes came in at pushing £300k! (gulp)

That figure includes:

- orangery extension to kitchen - French doors to garden
- moving kitchen into current dining area, building pantry
- refit kitchen and utility
- total internal and external decoration
- refit 2 x bathrooms and cloakroom
- replace all windows and external doors
- new garage doors
- replace fascias, soffits and guttering
- repair render and weatherboarding
- new boiler and water softener
- remove small internal porch wall
- terracing and paving
- replace some radiators
- plus a few miscellaneous bits and bobs.

Our total budget (including appliances, fees, flooring, specialist insurance and contingency) is a shade under £275k against our original finger-in-the-air estimate of £150k. Our kitchen and bathroom fittings are mid range. The only top of the range materials are the new low maintenance windows and doors.

I think I'm doing exactly what you're doing, but hopefully being two bedrooms, ground floor, and building over an area half prepared already by removing a so-called conservatory I may get by. I always knew it might be more expensive and, well, I'll forget about that when it's done. I'm retired and divorced so the idea is to create a house in which I can entertain and which they will carry me out of in a box.

£275K to upgrade a house that is less than 140 square metres, when does this become vastly overdeveloped?

babyblade41

reading some of these upgrades I certainly question whether moving might be a cheaper option !!

DairyQueen

BikingBud said:

milltech said:

DairyQueen said:

milltech said:

DairyQueen said:

Our project is the refurb of a neglected 1990s house, plus a kitchen extension with lantern roof. We have an architectural technician working on the project and he has produced the specs and plans. It sounds like the kind of pack your Spanish guy produced. The pack includes a 'statement of works' and the whole shamboozle was submitted to contractors when inviting to tender. We received three fixed price quotes in response and appointed our builder in December. Contractor is now on site and the architect's plans are constantly referenced.

Our architect organised the structural engineer and building control consultants, plus Certificate of lawful Development. He communicates with the builder on matters structural. He checks invoices, researches materials and products, negotiates prices, and handles all variations to the original SoW, amongst many other things.

He isn't cheap but has been worth his weight in gold as we are building project novices. We are spending a significant sum (for us) and he provides peace of mind.

Are you in the UK and if so, could you put me in touch? This is exactly the sort of person I seek and even if not within striking distance of Worcestershire there may be a professional body that could help! Yes the Architect will supply the same as your guy.

Other side of the country from you but I believe that all architectural practices offer this kind of service. Worth enquiring with a few local to you?

FWIW I think others upthread may have a point re: your budget. Our budget is now almost double our original estimate. Building costs have gone through the roof (excuse pun) since the pandemic kicked-off and good builders are scarce. It has taken a year to complete the plans, process tenders and wait for our turn in the main contractor's queue (reputable company).

Our clay soil means pilings are required for our 4m x 4m extension. That has increased the cost to almost £70k (inc VAT) just for this element of the project. Even without the costly foundation, we wouldn't expect much change out of £55k for the extension. The cost of materials like steel and timber have suffered big price hikes, and the trades are making hay with equally large rate/wage increases as they are in such demand.

20% of the budget is handed to HMRC in the form of VAT, and the architect will cost 7.5%-12.5% of the building contract, plus another £2k-ish if you need a structural engineer, and a few hundred more for building control and planning. Net of those costs, your budget only allows £35k-£40k to cover the contractor, inc. all materials. Don't shoot the messenger but I doubt that will cover the materials in the current climate.

I don't want to alarm you but we are paying £228k inc VAT just for the contractor. One of the quotes came in at pushing £300k! (gulp)

That figure includes:

- orangery extension to kitchen - French doors to garden
- moving kitchen into current dining area, building pantry
- refit kitchen and utility
- total internal and external decoration
- refit 2 x bathrooms and cloakroom
- replace all windows and external doors
- new garage doors
- replace fascias, soffits and guttering
- repair render and weatherboarding
- new boiler and water softener
- remove small internal porch wall
- terracing and paving
- replace some radiators
- plus a few miscellaneous bits and bobs.

Our total budget (including appliances, fees, flooring, specialist insurance and contingency) is a shade under £275k against our original finger-in-the-air estimate of £150k. Our kitchen and bathroom fittings are mid range. The only top of the range materials are the new low maintenance windows and doors.

I think I'm doing exactly what you're doing, but hopefully being two bedrooms, ground floor, and building over an area half prepared already by removing a so-called conservatory I may get by. I always knew it might be more expensive and, well, I'll forget about that when it's done. I'm retired and divorced so the idea is to create a house in which I can entertain and which they will carry me out of in a box.

£275K to upgrade a house that is less than 140 square metres, when does this become vastly overdeveloped?

We bought at a big discount last year because of the neglected state and undersized kitchen. We will be about £50k down on the market value when the project is complete thanks to the massive hike in building costs in the last 18 months.

We thought about selling when the size of the inflationary increase became apparent, but decided It's worth the financial pain as we are newly-retired and intend to stay in the house for many years. This house isn't just an investment, it's a home that suits our wants and needs. The house is perfectly situated and ideally located. It is the right size and has the correct room arrangement. It would be difficult to replace.

So, we are prepared to go ahead with the extortionate budget rather than sell and buy again.

We are very fortunate to have the means todo this. Sounds like OP is in a similar position and his/her decision is also informed by non-financial factors. 

FreeBear

milltech said: So far as the house is concerned I'm guessing I have a 30 foot x 6 foot single story extension to build for utility and two bathrooms, (lantern light to main bathroom in the middle of the run).

If you go for multiples of 1.2m (4 foot) internally, you will make better use of materials without so much wastage. For example, plasterboard comes in 2.4x1.2m, so making a room 8 foot long and 8 foot wide uses two sheets on the ceiling. Reduce the room to 6 foot wide, you still use two sheets, but waste half of one.