Should I ask for maintenance payments?

tightauldgit

Emlulo said:

tightauldgit said:

Of course you should be asking for maintenance. He has a responsibility to pay what he is obligated to pay. My advice would be to ask CMS to sort it out for you that way he can make his case about what he earns, what he can and can't afford to them rather than you guys having to argue over it. 

And, no I wouldn't suggest you start contributing to his mortgage. That would be rather a silly move in my opinion if you are saying that you need some money to help support your child. If he can't afford his accommodation  after he has supported his kid then he needs to sell up and downsize to what he can afford. 

Do CMS take into account a person’s financial circumstances outside of income? That would be the cleanest way to ask him to contribute, but I suspect they would not consider his debts, whereas if we could make a private arrangement I would. I broached the subject with him yesterday and the response was, ‘you know my financial situation’. Ultimately, any money from him is for his children and a better life for them, so he should make adjustments like living somewhere cheaper. I suspect  the just won’t.. 

They won't consider his debt but by the sound of things neither is he. So  the choice is whether he fritters his money away on stuff for himself while the kids go without or whether the kids get what they are entitled to FIRST and then he can do what he wants with what's left. 

If paying his child maintenance means he can't pay his debts then that's something he can talk to his lenders about. 

To be honest it sounds like he is taking you for a fool because you are being too nice about things. Contact CMS, get what you are entitled to and let him worry about his own financial situation. It's not your problem. 

Emlulo

tightauldgit said:

Emlulo said:

tightauldgit said:

Of course you should be asking for maintenance. He has a responsibility to pay what he is obligated to pay. My advice would be to ask CMS to sort it out for you that way he can make his case about what he earns, what he can and can't afford to them rather than you guys having to argue over it. 

And, no I wouldn't suggest you start contributing to his mortgage. That would be rather a silly move in my opinion if you are saying that you need some money to help support your child. If he can't afford his accommodation  after he has supported his kid then he needs to sell up and downsize to what he can afford. 

Do CMS take into account a person’s financial circumstances outside of income? That would be the cleanest way to ask him to contribute, but I suspect they would not consider his debts, whereas if we could make a private arrangement I would. I broached the subject with him yesterday and the response was, ‘you know my financial situation’. Ultimately, any money from him is for his children and a better life for them, so he should make adjustments like living somewhere cheaper. I suspect  the just won’t.. 

They won't consider his debt but by the sound of things neither is he. So  the choice is whether he fritters his money away on stuff for himself while the kids go without or whether the kids get what they are entitled to FIRST and then he can do what he wants with what's left. 

If paying his child maintenance means he can't pay his debts then that's something he can talk to his lenders about. 

To be honest it sounds like he is taking you for a fool because you are being too nice about things. Contact CMS, get what you are entitled to and let him worry about his own financial situation. It's not your problem. 

I don’t think he has made any real effort to get rid of his debt. He just had an easy life with me paying for everything. Also, the flat has been on the market for two years with no sale, and he was reliant on the money from it to reduce his debts. Recently he told me that he has the option to work Saturdays for £400 extra a month. I don’t know why he hasn’t been doing this, as that would have been a great way to make a real dent in his debts. He doesn’t buy big, extravagant things really - just way over spends every month. He buys new trainers every couple of months, will live off takeaways if he can (if I wasn’t around to cook every night, even though we both worked) and will just put everything on credit cards. He gets carried away with his interests, spends loads of money on pursuing them and then decides he isn’t in to them any more. He sees a day out with the kids as taking them to the toy shop to buy them stuff. Whereas for me, it’s a park with friends. When I said that I did not want to continue the relationship, his first words were, ‘shall we just book a holiday?’.

Paying the full amount that the CMS would ask for would mean that he couldn’t pay all his debts from what I understand. He is paying into things like private healthcare and extras at work though.. so I think there are ways he could make savings there. I directed him to some debt help agencies, but he isn’t interested. He sees any suggestions from me as attacks.

I wonder if his lenders would help him out with a payment plan if he explains his situation. I wouldn’t ask for the full amount that the CMS would take (~£500 per month), but something towards them would be good. I adore my children and I will pay for them to have the life I want them to, but that also means for me that I have to make hard choices. For example, I currently work 32 hours so that I can have them after school and we can do things, but I will have to go back to work 40 hours soon, which means after school care and more need for help from family for child care. If he was paying maintenance I wouldn’t need to do that and sacrifice time with my children.

Emlulo

Deenport said:

Emlulo said:

tightauldgit said:

Of course you should be asking for maintenance. He has a responsibility to pay what he is obligated to pay. My advice would be to ask CMS to sort it out for you that way he can make his case about what he earns, what he can and can't afford to them rather than you guys having to argue over it. 

And, no I wouldn't suggest you start contributing to his mortgage. That would be rather a silly move in my opinion if you are saying that you need some money to help support your child. If he can't afford his accommodation  after he has supported his kid then he needs to sell up and downsize to what he can afford. 

Do CMS take into account a person’s financial circumstances outside of income? That would be the cleanest way to ask him to contribute, but I suspect they would not consider his debts, whereas if we could make a private arrangement I would. I broached the subject with him yesterday and the response was, ‘you know my financial situation’. Ultimately, any money from him is for his children and a better life for them, so he should make adjustments like living somewhere cheaper. I suspect  the just won’t.. 

I think there are a few things to consider here: 
1. If his mum loans him money then that’s between them and should not be considered in the mix, nor should he be expected to never go out. 

2. If he downsizes, would there be room for him to have the children overnight? Would he even get a new mortgage or accepted for a rented home with his credit record? 

3. Absolutely he should contribute towards his children, however forcing him into potentially losing his home, which may result in losing his job is going to help no one. 

4.  CMS won’t consider his outgoings or debt, they simply look at salary and deduct the amount, which could push him further into debt, with no way out. 

In short, I think you have to weigh everything up and decide to either push him farther into debt, or cut your losses and accept that (hopefully) he is a kind and loving father which the children will appreciate far more than swimming lessons. 

P.s. I expect most will disagree with me, this is simply my opinion. 

Thank you - valid points, and I appreciate your opinion - it’s what I came here for

I had mentioned around the money he owes his mum (and me) to add flesh to his situation and financial irresponsibility. I mentioned the night out not to say that he shouldn’t have a night out, of course he should. My point was that does he need to have such expensive nights out when his children need things and he is in such awful debt. If it were me, I would not be behaving like that.

if he downsizes, there won’t be space for the kids to stay with him, which is valid. Maybe it would still be an idea just to get himself on a more even keel financially. I have offered him my place to spend time with the kids, and said I would offer to be away for that time. So it wouldn’t stop him from spending quality time with them.

it’s frustrating to think that I can’t give the kids the life they should have because I have no financial support from him and that there are things he could do to make his life better, but he won’t.

tightauldgit

Emlulo said:

tightauldgit said:

Emlulo said:

tightauldgit said:

Of course you should be asking for maintenance. He has a responsibility to pay what he is obligated to pay. My advice would be to ask CMS to sort it out for you that way he can make his case about what he earns, what he can and can't afford to them rather than you guys having to argue over it. 

And, no I wouldn't suggest you start contributing to his mortgage. That would be rather a silly move in my opinion if you are saying that you need some money to help support your child. If he can't afford his accommodation  after he has supported his kid then he needs to sell up and downsize to what he can afford. 

Do CMS take into account a person’s financial circumstances outside of income? That would be the cleanest way to ask him to contribute, but I suspect they would not consider his debts, whereas if we could make a private arrangement I would. I broached the subject with him yesterday and the response was, ‘you know my financial situation’. Ultimately, any money from him is for his children and a better life for them, so he should make adjustments like living somewhere cheaper. I suspect  the just won’t.. 

They won't consider his debt but by the sound of things neither is he. So  the choice is whether he fritters his money away on stuff for himself while the kids go without or whether the kids get what they are entitled to FIRST and then he can do what he wants with what's left. 

If paying his child maintenance means he can't pay his debts then that's something he can talk to his lenders about. 

To be honest it sounds like he is taking you for a fool because you are being too nice about things. Contact CMS, get what you are entitled to and let him worry about his own financial situation. It's not your problem. 

I don’t think he has made any real effort to get rid of his debt. He just had an easy life with me paying for everything. Also, the flat has been on the market for two years with no sale, and he was reliant on the money from it to reduce his debts. Recently he told me that he has the option to work Saturdays for £400 extra a month. I don’t know why he hasn’t been doing this, as that would have been a great way to make a real dent in his debts. He doesn’t buy big, extravagant things really - just way over spends every month. He buys new trainers every couple of months, will live off takeaways if he can (if I wasn’t around to cook every night, even though we both worked) and will just put everything on credit cards. He gets carried away with his interests, spends loads of money on pursuing them and then decides he isn’t in to them any more. He sees a day out with the kids as taking them to the toy shop to buy them stuff. Whereas for me, it’s a park with friends. When I said that I did not want to continue the relationship, his first words were, ‘shall we just book a holiday?’.

Paying the full amount that the CMS would ask for would mean that he couldn’t pay all his debts from what I understand. He is paying into things like private healthcare and extras at work though.. so I think there are ways he could make savings there. I directed him to some debt help agencies, but he isn’t interested. He sees any suggestions from me as attacks.

I wonder if his lenders would help him out with a payment plan if he explains his situation. I wouldn’t ask for the full amount that the CMS would take (~£500 per month), but something towards them would be good. I adore my children and I will pay for them to have the life I want them to, but that also means for me that I have to make hard choices. For example, I currently work 32 hours so that I can have them after school and we can do things, but I will have to go back to work 40 hours soon, which means after school care and more need for help from family for child care. If he was paying maintenance I wouldn’t need to do that and sacrifice time with my children.

I don't really understand why you feel that you and the kids should make sacrifices so as not to cause him any stress but at the end of the day it's your choice. Rest assured though that you have two choices - you can try to negotiate endlessly with this guy to give you 'something' and get nothing or you can go to CMS and get it sorted. 

Deenport

Emlulo said:

Deenport said:

Emlulo said:

tightauldgit said:

Of course you should be asking for maintenance. He has a responsibility to pay what he is obligated to pay. My advice would be to ask CMS to sort it out for you that way he can make his case about what he earns, what he can and can't afford to them rather than you guys having to argue over it. 

And, no I wouldn't suggest you start contributing to his mortgage. That would be rather a silly move in my opinion if you are saying that you need some money to help support your child. If he can't afford his accommodation  after he has supported his kid then he needs to sell up and downsize to what he can afford. 

Do CMS take into account a person’s financial circumstances outside of income? That would be the cleanest way to ask him to contribute, but I suspect they would not consider his debts, whereas if we could make a private arrangement I would. I broached the subject with him yesterday and the response was, ‘you know my financial situation’. Ultimately, any money from him is for his children and a better life for them, so he should make adjustments like living somewhere cheaper. I suspect  the just won’t.. 

I think there are a few things to consider here: 
1. If his mum loans him money then that’s between them and should not be considered in the mix, nor should he be expected to never go out. 

2. If he downsizes, would there be room for him to have the children overnight? Would he even get a new mortgage or accepted for a rented home with his credit record? 

3. Absolutely he should contribute towards his children, however forcing him into potentially losing his home, which may result in losing his job is going to help no one. 

4.  CMS won’t consider his outgoings or debt, they simply look at salary and deduct the amount, which could push him further into debt, with no way out. 

In short, I think you have to weigh everything up and decide to either push him farther into debt, or cut your losses and accept that (hopefully) he is a kind and loving father which the children will appreciate far more than swimming lessons. 

P.s. I expect most will disagree with me, this is simply my opinion. 

Thank you - valid points, and I appreciate your opinion - it’s what I came here for

I had mentioned around the money he owes his mum (and me) to add flesh to his situation and financial irresponsibility. I mentioned the night out not to say that he shouldn’t have a night out, of course he should. My point was that does he need to have such expensive nights out when his children need things and he is in such awful debt. If it were me, I would not be behaving like that.

if he downsizes, there won’t be space for the kids to stay with him, which is valid. Maybe it would still be an idea just to get himself on a more even keel financially. I have offered him my place to spend time with the kids, and said I would offer to be away for that time. So it wouldn’t stop him from spending quality time with them.

it’s frustrating to think that I can’t give the kids the life they should have because I have no financial support from him and that there are things he could do to make his life better, but he won’t.

Thank you for being kind about my comments, I did wonder if I would receive a barrage of comments in response. I completely agree with everything that you and others have said, however it seems as though he is either ignoring his financial situation or he doesn’t see it as a problem. Unfortunately some people are like this and there is nothing you or anyone can do to change it. So that’s why my comments led to the suggestion that it might be better to cut your losses. 

Avoiding all the potential stress, arguments and upset for you trying to get money from him and avoiding the possibility of further debt and additional complications for him I think is the greater goal. I hope it works out for you all

TBagpuss

it's up to you, but there is no reason wny you should not ask for maintenace. The fact thathe is paying the mortgage on the flat doesn't change that, since he is living there is is entirely reasonable that she should be paying. Thuink of it as him paying his 'half' of the mortgage as his share, and the other half as rent to you for your share of the flat. After all , once the flat is sold  he will have to pay rent or pay a mortgage elsewhere, it's not as though he was paying for the mortgage on the place you are living (which it would befiar to treat as a payment in lieu of child support) 

Of course, if you wish, you can agree to accept less that yoiur full entitlement, or agree not to ask for maintenace for a fixed time (maybe 3 months) to give him the change tobuild up a little bit of savings first, but that's up to you

D924

You should consider that child maintenance debt can not be written off by bankruptcy, so there's no need to try and protect his personal finances to enable him to make the payments.

bargainbetty

I'm going to throw the most cynical of spanners into the works here - the flat is entirely in his name, correct? Given his debt levels, I find it rather implausible that you will ever see a penny of the proceeds of that sale. He will claim that he needs to fund a new home, pay back his mum, or other debts etc.... after all, you 'know his financial situation'. 

Protect your interests and those of your children first. Do not give him any more money for vehicles etc, he could easily have purchased a less costly vehicle. He is using your wish to ensure his relationship with his kids doesn't suffer to avoid paying a fair share of their upkeep. 

Honestly, if he will not agree to and pay a set monthly amount towards food, clothes etc, just get the CMS involved now. This is only going to get worse if you do not set a boundary as soon as possible. His failure to manage his finances is no longer your problem. 

Spendless

I've just read this thread thinking all the time what the above poster has just said.

I'm guessing you weren't married, so assets won't be being split in a divorce? 

A  flat in his name only. I'm not convinced you'll see much if any of any proceeds from a sale. I'd stop banking on it, apply for maintainace for the children and let him deal with his debt

DE_612183

Spendless said:

I've just read this thread thinking all the time what the above poster has just said.

I'm guessing you weren't married, so assets won't be being split in a divorce? 

A  flat in his name only. I'm not convinced you'll see much if any of any proceeds from a sale. I'd stop banking on it, apply for maintainace for the children and let him deal with his debt

Correct - if the flat is in his name then it's his in "common law world"

Whose name is the house in?