Gifting Property/Will

2143lewis

Hi all.
Apologies if this is the wrong section of the forum.

My father (61) bought his council house. Its only worth around 40-50k and wants to leave it to me. He sees it as a gift for his grand kids in the future.
I have a brother (His Son). Neither i or my dad talk to him. To cut a long story short there is a lot of bad blood between the family. My dad doesn't want him getting anything in his passing. Nothing.

With this in mind we have been advised as my brother is blood he can contest a Will if this was in place. I don't want to have to deal with my dads passing, funeral and Will and have to then be dragged into another family saga. It fills me with dread at the thought but i wouldn't want to walk away from the situation as its my dads wishes.

The best advice we have been given is for my dad to transfer the deeds to the house over to myself. However we will have to hire 2 solicitors. Pay fee's for registattion. Reports and becuase i already have a morgage i would have to pay a 4% Additional dwelling Supplement. This so far is costing over £4.000. All to change the name from David to Ryan on a piece of paper.

I love my dad but paying out this much when i am expecting a child just isn't realistic. 

Is there a simplier way of doing this ? 

Thanks 

Keep_pedalling

Who is giving you this advice? A simple transfer of property should not cost £4000, require 2 solicitors or involve a 4% additional dwelling supplement as there is no such thing. Additional stamp duty applies to the purchase of a second home but that is 3% on the price paid so does not apply to a gift.

Having said that no one should give their home away, it puts their security at risk (what happens if you die first, become bankrupt, or get involved in an expensive divorce?) 

p00hsticks

2143lewis said:

Is there a simplier way of doing this ? 

Yes, get him to go to a solictor and make a will, to state clearly what he wants to happen on his death. That can include either simply leaving a token inheritance to your brother or specifically stating that he does not intend leaving anything to him.

Yes, the will could be challenged, but then if your brother was particualrly vindictive I suspect the transfer of the property could as well - your brother could claim your father did either under undue influence from you, Getting a solicitor involved (either for the will or to handle the property transfer) would ensure that there are impartial witnesses who can confirm that your father was in his right mind and not being coerced into doing anything. Unless your brother is financially dependant on your father, which it seems clear he isn't, he will have little chance of any claim suceeding (assuming you are in England in Wales - I think in Scotland you are legally obliged to pass some of your estate to your children - again a solicitor is best placed to advise on this).

As is often pointed out on this forum, if your father continues to live in the property after giving it to you without paying you a market rent, it's a 'gift with reservation' and remains in his estate. It also leaves him vulnerable to being made homeless shoudl you divorce or go bankrupt, and jeopardises both his and your application for any means tested benefits should you need them.

A properly drawn up will is by far the simplest solution. 

P.S. - I hope including the names Dxxxx and Rxxxx in conjunction with your username aren't making you identifiable to the other party concerned...

Goose_Grass

First, I agree with @Keep_pedalling and @p00hsticks both about the likelihood of a will challenge and that transferring the house is a bad idea.

Nothing you have said in your original post makes me think any of the things you propose to do are necessary.   A simple will made by a local solicitor (or if your father feels he can't afford it, perhaps a charity's solicitor in return to making a small bequest to the charity) could sort this far more cheaply and easily.  Written by a solicitor, this will would be very hard to challenge, and if the estate is relatively small (which seems likely) it would be useless for your brother to try because his legal bills would soon be bigger than the inheritance.

Incidentally, if you live in England or Wales and your father dies intestate (i.e without a valid will), then you would get 50% and your brother 50%, assuming your father is unmarried and has no other children.  So getting a will in place right away should be the priority if your father dislikes this 50/50 outcome.

Mojisola

My parents left their estates in different proportions to their offspring - on the advice of their solicitor, they wrote a letter which was kept with the wills which explained their decision - just in case any of us wanted to challenge the will.
We didn't because the distribution was very reasonable.
The advantage of a separate letter is that this doesn't become public unless the will is challenged and is used in a court case   

2143lewis

Keep_pedalling said:

Who is giving you this advice? A simple transfer of property should not cost £4000, require 2 solicitors or involve a 4% additional dwelling supplement as there is no such thing. Additional stamp duty applies to the purchase of a second home but that is 3% on the price paid so does not apply to a gift.

Having said that no one should give their home away, it puts their security at risk (what happens if you die first, become bankrupt, or get involved in an expensive divorce?) 

I had got in touch with our local solicitor for advise.

I done some research and found the foms we would have to complete from the Land Register of Scotland. I just couldnt find a lot of information regarding the process and decided to get professional help.When the costs continued to rise i got he feeling we were being taken advantage of. 

I have informed him of the dangers many of times and been putting it off hoping he would drop it but he is determined to get it done now and has started to fill out forms he found on the Register of Scotland.... 

GrumpyDil

As everyone has said just get a properly written will put in place. When I studied wills and probate a long time ago the general view was that making a will with a token gift of a £1 would make it very hard to challenge a will as it shows the testator has taken a deliberate decision in relation to that person. 

p00hsticks

GrumpyDil said:

As everyone has said just get a properly written will put in place. When I studied wills and probate a long time ago the general view was that making a will with a token gift of a £1 would make it very hard to challenge a will as it shows the testator has taken a deliberate decision in relation to that person. 

I think an issue with this maybe that the OP has now implied in their last post that the parties are all based in Scotland.

I'm not familiar with Scottish law but have a feeling from previous threads on this board that in Scotland it may not be legally permissibe to completely disinherit your children in the same way that it would be in England or Wales ? I may be wrong though ....

Keep_pedalling

p00hsticks said:

GrumpyDil said:

As everyone has said just get a properly written will put in place. When I studied wills and probate a long time ago the general view was that making a will with a token gift of a £1 would make it very hard to challenge a will as it shows the testator has taken a deliberate decision in relation to that person. 

I think an issue with this maybe that the OP has now implied in their last post that the parties are all based in Scotland.

I'm not familiar with Scottish law but have a feeling from previous threads on this board that in Scotland it may not be legally permissibe to completely disinherit your children in the same way that it would be in England or Wales ? I may be wrong though ....

Children only have rights over the movable part of the estate, so if the bulk of your estate is in property the amount they can claim is minimal. If you knew that you only had days to live then you could give all you movable estate away to prevent them inheriting.

2143lewis

p00hsticks said:

GrumpyDil said:

As everyone has said just get a properly written will put in place. When I studied wills and probate a long time ago the general view was that making a will with a token gift of a £1 would make it very hard to challenge a will as it shows the testator has taken a deliberate decision in relation to that person. 

I think an issue with this maybe that the OP has now implied in their last post that the parties are all based in Scotland.

I'm not familiar with Scottish law but have a feeling from previous threads on this board that in Scotland it may not be legally permissibe to completely disinherit your children in the same way that it would be in England or Wales ? I may be wrong though ....

Yes we are both in Scotland.

I cant find a definitive answer anywhere online. He had a visit from his brother today and had an arguement as he said he thought he was getting the house. So he's told me its getting done now before the "Vultures" get their claws in.

He's going to see another solicitor on Monday to make all the arrangements. I'll make sure he gets it done at a fair price.

Thanks everyone for the help.