VCS LJLA 'Stopping PCN' - got to small claims court before seeing this forum

mcan541908

Coupon-mad said:

Look at things like whether the enforcement map includes the area where your car was?  Look at dates on the photos of signs, etc.

What's your deadline, or have you already got your WS and evidence in?

I've submitted my witness statement and evidence.  Hearing is on 1st June 2022.

I've uploaded a redacted copy of the VCS witness statement on Dropbox, here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cw00ksz7xh0bamf/VCS WS redacted.pdf?dl=0

Are they permitted to use blow-ups of the PCN photos as evidence?

Are the points they've ignored likely to be their weak points?

Is it appropriate to discuss any deficiencies in the WS on the forum given that there are believed to be VCS 'spies in the camp'?

Thanks in advance for any observations / guidance etc.

Jenni_D

FYI you should have enough time and posts now to be able to edit posts. Click on the cog wheel at the right of the banner above your relevant post.  

mcan541908

Not used to using Dropbox so just checking if anyone was able to access the link to the VCS WS?  https://www.dropbox.com/s/cw00ksz7xh0bamf/VCS WS redacted.pdf?dl=0

Fruitcake

I haven't time to read it now, but the link works fine.

Router66

@mcan541908 thank you for posting the link it has been very useful to have a heads up on their claim.
I will use 'no landowner authority' as my starting point. 

My rebuttal of their claim on Page 7 Point 6 Exhibit AA1...

'The contract itself gives notice that, ‘it MAY be possible to extend the contract by entering into negotiations with the client 3 months prior to the end of term date'
 (8th July 2015).

It is averred that if a contract did exist at the time VCS commenced legal proceedings against me, then it is that contract VCS should present to the court for examination, not one that expired in July 2015.

The claimant is therefore put to strict proof that the negotiation process took place on or before May 8th 2015 and both parties agreed to extend the contract beyond  the date VCS commenced legal proceedings against me.'

Coupon-mad

I never think that's what to lead on.  Don't hang your hat on it.

Signage and lack of contract between driver and parking firm, or lack of a fair grace period are the usual lead points (or nonPOFA/no keeper liability, or primacy of contract in applicable cases).

Landowner authority can be a damp squib in front of a Judge  because things only have to be established 'on the balance of probabilities'.  The fact that a contract existed with extension rights and the photos show the t&cs signs were still up at the time of parking, has been enough for more than one Judge because it's unlikely an AOS member (who has too much to lose) would be issuing tickets after expiry of a contract.  That's all a legal rep usually needs to say to get the nod on that point.

The landowner contract doesn't have to have been still current when they commenced legal proceedings.  Only on the day of the parking event.

mcan541908

Is anyone able to comment on the strengths and weaknesses of the various cases being presented here, i.e.:

On the one hand by VCS:

- Vehicle Control Services Limited v Nick Idle and Damen Ward (ultimately, it seems the Ward claim was won by VCS at appeal.

- Vehicle Control Services Limited v Alfred Charles Crutchley (about a business park with narrow roads versus an airport with dual carriageways and no way to stop when you see the signs as you are already, supposedly, on private land and can't 'not enter'  because its a dual carriageway [and have no chice but to 'accept' a contract] and can't stop because of the signs!).

On the other hand by me:

- District Judge Glen in ‘Parking Control Management (UK) v Bull 2016’

- District Judge Iyer in ‘Pace v Lengyel’

- Consumer Rights Act breaches by VCS

both VCs and I seem to be putting forward Parking Eye v Beavis for different reasons.

Also, can anyone say if an earlier discussion about contracts being properly executed (i.e. sealed or: 2 companies house directors, a director and a witness or someone with evidence of authority  to sign, actually needing to sign the contract) ended up with a conclusion in my favour, or not?.

Any help much appreciated.

Jenni_D

Coupon-mad said:

The landowner contract doesn't have to have been still current when they commenced legal proceedings.  Only on the day of the parking event.

Fair comment - but I think that this (quoted) is exactly what is being asked; the Claimant is put to strict proof that they had a valid, extended contract on the date of the alleged parking contravention. (PCN was December 2018, contract details supplied ended May 2015). If they had no rights over the land (contractual or otherwise) then they have no cause of action.  

And of course, we know that PPCs will glibly issues PCNs regardless of whether they have a valid contract - and even if they have no rights (contractual or otherwise) over the land itself (i.e. the car being parked outside of their contracted area, or on public land).  

Coupon-mad

Yep but that's not what the OP's draft said. I was replying to a question where a phrase like 'when action commenced' was used.  

The point about two signatures is waaay down the pecking order and I honestly think a Judge would think a defendant is clutching at straws.

Far better to defend on facts of unclear signs, or no evidence this place was within the enforced area map, etc.  Go straight to the fact that no contract was agreed because the signs were pants.  Also that Airport roads are public highway (subject to penalties under the TMA, or byelaws, not contractual 'agreed' parking charges) and VCS (maybe?) only had a contract for the car parks or other area...

Crutchley and Ward have been rebutted on threads before.  How we laughed/cried/cringed at the naive decisions of those Circuit Judges, who seemed oblivious to their duty to consider the fairness and prominence of consumer contracts (CMA 2015 places a duty on the courts to consider fairness of SIGNS AND TERMS, whether a party raises it or not).

Just needs a concerted forum search to find Crutchley rebutted in statements before.

Obviously at an Airport you can't be expected (as the Judge in Crutchley was astonishingly persuaded you could at a business park!) to stop, leave the car (where exactly?) and go on foot to check out the signs past each and every new junction or roundabout!

mcan541908

In case it is of use to anyone else defending a case, I've uploaded my supplementary WS here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/22f7v2e9xsh2i9h/Supplementary Witness statement rev A H2QZ6T1Z.pdf?dl=0

[ Edit - I've uploaded a revised edition of Supplementary WS to avoid confusing anyone else who might want to refer to it.  I've corrected complainant to claimant and fixed two references to a para.]

In essence, I've responded to each para in the VCS WS and also listed out each item of proof that I called for which VCS have not provided.

Don't know if that is the right approach but time was of the essence and, as I understand it, - if it isn't in my WS then I cant say it in court!

Thanks to everyone here for their invaluable assistance.

Will let you know how it goes on Wednesday.