PCN, 1st ever.

Brewer21

Just before I go ahead and pay my £60 parking charge, have 14 days or it's £100 thought I'd ask the question, is it worth appealing?

UKCPS have sent me a PCN for parking at a retail park, yep there were all the signs, yep I read them, I knew the penalty but didn't realise the time I'd spent parked. I got 3 hours free but I went over by 12 minutes. Is there any normal grace time with these things, or bang you were over 3 hours pay up.

Sorry I've asked the question, I've read all of the board, all the frequently ask stuff and can't really decide if I should just pay up or appeal? Advice seems to be just appeal anyway but in doing so will I if it's rejected now have to pay £100 or the £60 reduced charge?

Thanks.

Coupon-mad

No poster here would ever pay the likes of UKCPS, ex-clampers whose HQ was filmed on TV to be a portacabin round the back of the Blooming Rose pub in Leeds. Don't pay them a penny.

Read other UKCPS threads and put your bank card away. Did you miss reading the Announcement in capitals at the top of this board: NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST?

Brewer21

Coupon-mad said:

No poster here would ever pay the likes of UKCPS, ex-clampers whose HQ was filmed on TV to be a portacabin round the back of the Blooming Rose pub in Leeds. Don't pay them a penny.

Read other UKCPS threads and put your bank card away. Did you miss reading the Announcement in capitals at the top of this board: NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST?

So do they still operate from the portacabin?
I've read the newbies thread, some of it is going back quite a few years.
Really the question from those that have more experience (possibly) is it worth appealing a 12 mins over stay and will I end up paying more as time elapses if I appeal.
Not really found an answer to these type of questions, I have looked, possibly in the wrong place who knows?

KeithP

Did you read this in the opening post of the NEWBIES thread?...

Your plan is, or perhaps should be, to not pay anything at all.

Not_A_Hope

You can argue that timestamps on the ANPR cameras on the entrance and exit do not actually show the duration of actually parking. Are the clocks synchronised properly? How big is the site, how long did it take you to find a parking space? How long did it take you to read all the terms and conditions on their signs possibly before you actually decided to park? Was there a queue that delayed you leaving the site?

Not_A_Hope

Whether or or not you feel aggrieved enough to not pay these scammers your first task should be to go to the shops at the retail park and complain. Ask them to get the PCN cancelled or you and everyone you know will no longer be using them if every genuine visit came with a £100 parking fee! 

Brewer21

Not_A_Hope said:

You can argue that timestamps on the ANPR cameras on the entrance and exit do not actually show the duration of actually parking. Are the clocks synchronised properly? How big is the site, how long did it take you to find a parking space? How long did it take you to read all the terms and conditions on their signs possibly before you actually decided to park? Was there a queue that delayed you leaving the site?

I was thinking of appealing on the same thoughts as you. The PCN relates to my parking time (stationary in a bay) not to being onsite for over 3 hours. On that particular day I had to queue to exit the retail park just about where they had taken an image of my vehicle behind another waiting to get out. Another annoyance and a plus point there was temporary traffic lights erected due to roadworks adding to a little congestion on exit. I suppose give me a few minutes to find a parking spot after entry and that actual time spent actually parked is pretty close to the he 3 hours allowed. They said I was there 192 minutes, the pictures show the time of entry/exit on the images.
It's a retail park in Derbyshire it's owned I believe by some company not based in the actual county (aren't most these days) and obviously not one company on that park I suppose has a say on what's right or wrong about the parking arrangements. The local council I have read have had problems with folk complaining about receiving parking charge notices, sounds about normal as these things go.

Not_A_Hope

You should still still complain to the retailers first to try to get your PCN cancelled. You can use the info above about why it is unfair. They may well remember the temporary lights and traffic congestion and may want your custom in future.

If you appeal to the PPC don't be too disappointed if they don't agree. That earns them nothing. A subsequent appeal to their ATA the IPC is also likely to be fruitless as they only allow 4% of appeals. A judge is much likely to find in your favour with a well constructed defence and witness statement.

Google the IPC Code of Practice and look at grace periods in section 13.2. They currently should allow 10 minutes grace after the parking time has expired. Bet you spent more than two minutes trying to get off the car park.

Fruitcake

Plan A, complain to the landowner and manager and/or CEO of every store visited.

ANPR cameras are not fit for purpose which is why the UK Government does not permit them to be used in council car parks. Unregulated private parking companies use them because their flaws generate parking revenue. They do not record parking time, only time on site.

If Plan A fails, appeal using the template in blue text from the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES. Send it unaltered from The Keeper. Do not reveal the driver's identity when complaining or appealing. Only ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper. 

You should also complain to your MP about this unregulated industry, referred to as scammers, rogues, and bloodsuckers by MPs across all parties.

Umkomaas

It's a retail park in Derbyshire it's owned I believe by some company not based in the actual county (aren't most these days) and obviously not one company on that park

If it's a multi-outlet retail park there will be a managing agent involved, and they will be the best to complain to. Often their name is shown near the bottom of the large sign showing the names of the retail outlets, at the entrance to the site. 

Brewer21

Umkomaas said:

It's a retail park in Derbyshire it's owned I believe by some company not based in the actual county (aren't most these days) and obviously not one company on that park

If it's a multi-outlet retail park there will be a managing agent involved, and they will be the best to complain to. Often their name is shown near the bottom of the large sign showing the names of the retail outlets, at the entrance to the site. 

Thank you for that info.

Now found the management company, Savills.
After spending time reading about local concerns and actually finding three cases of similar nature to mine of tickets issued (I'm sure many more not reported) one actually got the parking ticket cancelled after an over stay of 25 mins by just contacting the parks management company above straight off.
I've fired off an email to them, obviously I'll await their response, bank holiday etc so we'll see what happens next.