Advice on building a garden studio (terraced house)...

delmonta

diystarter7 said:

Looks at your pics, is your house similar to those IE high pitched roofs?
If so, simple loft conversion with a skylight or two and a pull down ladder
along with minila structural work inside the loft mat work out slightly more
expensive by easier to keep wark, run electric to etc and not having to step out in the cold, etc.

Of cousre yo get to keep the garden size/etc and imo will easily recover the money when/if sold
(you could also use as a storage that will be free of damp etc

My loft is already converted, but not a dormer, just room in the roof. I've been working from there but its my bedroom. I considered getting it converted to a dormer, but its a bit of a waste of money as its already converted and wouldn't add that much value as its already an extra bedroom. And its crazy expensive! Maybe 25k or more. And then I'm still working from my bedroom, just a bigger one! 

This is why I was leaning to the garden room, as it can be done for a fraction of the price and my bedroom can be a place to relax and sleep, not work!

delmonta

Bendy_House said:

delmonta said:

Thanks, well its 2.4 metres wall to wall which is definitely my garden. But there is space between the gardens too that may be mine too, I'd have to check the deeds. I can knock down the brick wall

Good idea to have a bit of undercover space for a bike though. I really want to squeeze the most space out I can, but also not make it a nightmare to build and repair!

I'd second/third the care taken not to alienate your chilled neighbours.

That wall, for example, could be all yours and sit fully on your side of the boundary, or it could straddle the true boundary, so not 'yours'. It's hard to tell from your photo how your terraced house is positioned, but if in a straight row, it should be easy to determine the EXACT boundary line. The fence on the other side could be fully within the neighbour's property, and have been built by them to add further privacy as it's taller than the wall. So there's a chance, if you demolish that wall assuming it's 100% yours, you will be gaining what isn't, so expect that to cause rightful annoyance.

This will be flat-roofed? So should be within max heights for closeness to boundaries?

I'd still, personally, factor in a maintenance/non-encroachment strip around the room if you can - even if only the absolute min - 300mm?!

But, it is quite possible to preassemble wall sections and fit them from 'inside'. For this I'd use an outer skin that'll last decades without attention - say, metal cladding.

Thanks all really useful advice. I will have to check where the boundary is. There is a strange gap between their fence and my wall. But everything is wonky around here! 

Yes it will be flat roofed so 2.5m metres max height. Do you know if you can install Velux windows on a roof like this, with such a shallow pitch? As the sides and back will be agains the boundaries, I was thinking of just a Velux and then the big doors, but need something that opens to ventilate

Is 300mm enough for any maintenance? That would just about fit me! Thats good to know you can pre assemble and do it that way, but as you say maybe best to not in case of any issues. I just don't want it protruding into the garden too much

I saw one guy just used OSB board on the back and sides and then used Yacht varnish as you wouldn't see those walls. Doesn't seem like a very full proof long term solution. What do you think? What would be best, you mentioned metal? Is there any sheet material that would work, to make it quick rather that cladding? 

delmonta

Doozergirl said:

delmonta said:

doningtonphil said:

Hello. My first garden building was from Sanctumgardenstudios.com in Chorley. Arrived on site at 8am, fully built and electrics plugged in by 1pm. 
They seemed the best price for the 'prebuilt' garden pods.
2nd garden office I 'built myself'.
Concreted threaded rods into the ground to provide adjustable support.
Liaised with a company off ebay who build SIP panels to your design (basically panels made of thick polystyrene  sandwiched between an inner and outer OSB 'skin').
Ordered a patio door from my local UPVC merchant and bought a Kingspan insulated metal roof off the guys from Sanctum.
Overall, about half the cost of Sanctum, but was far from being 'built in a morning'

Thanks, yeah I can't pay for one of the pre built ones or the companies. 

I am weighing up whether to use SIP panels or just build it the traditional way. I read one blog post saying how all these companies push SIP panels as being better because they are cheaper and more convenient. But they don't breathe at all and end up with issues in the future. But I dont really know

My house is built from SIPs, as are most of the house on Grand Designs these days.  All buildings need to breathe but the 'old' way is just to have a leaky building that is naturally draughty. As we need to conserve energy, airtight is the future for all of us.  

A SIPs build, or any airtight build, should have 'managed' ventilation.  A small MVHR unit will manage ventilation and recover heat, or binning off the airtight qualities in favour of two openings with trickle vents is an option, but I'd say that complaints about SIPs are born from ignorance and expecting them to be the same as traditional construction.  In fact, I've seen plenty of complaints about condensation in all sorts of garden buildings, so I think it's a general ignorance about the balance of heat and ventilation needed in property.  

They're not cheap at all but they are an easy build and exceptionally strong.  

This is interesting, yeah I only read one post writing negatively about Sips. I obviously want to avoid damp, but also to keep it warm. 

For such a small build and with no access apart from through the house maybe Sips aren't practical or even cheaper in my case? What do you think? There is a possibility to get them all in over the neighbours gardens if they are manageable by 4 or 5 people? 

stuart45

delmonta said:

FaceHead said:

I'm in exactly the same spot - we designed our space around having one work from home space for the two of us, but with two of us working at home regularly, a garden space is in the crosshairs. 

I was planning on making a frame out of 4x2s, with (outside to inside) fetheredge cladding, plywood, rockwool slab and then plasterboard. 

I was planning on putting cellotex in the floor and roof, but would rather not stretch the budget to cellotex in the walls too. The rockwall slab will also have better acoustic properties, but is a lot cheaper and provides something like 2/3 of the insulation.

Looking at those sanctum prices only motivates me to take the DIY option! 

I think I'll give it a go over the jubilee weekend. Will be on the look out for a secondhand door and window.

Thats interesting to know it would have better acoustic properties. So better insulation doesnt mean better sound proofing? 

Thermal and sound insulation are different. Sound is much denser, although both will help sound and thermal to some degree. 

FreeBear

delmonta said: Do you know if you can install Velux windows on a roof like this, with such a shallow pitch?

You can get Velux windows for installation on a flat roof. You can also get a perspex dome to go over the top if the window is a non-opener. Just make sure you are sitting down when looking at the prices.

delmonta

FreeBear said:

delmonta said: Do you know if you can install Velux windows on a roof like this, with such a shallow pitch?

You can get Velux windows for installation on a flat roof. You can also get a perspex dome to go over the top if the window is a non-opener. Just make sure you are sitting down when looking at the prices.

Thanks, I think as it would be the only window it would need to open! 

Yes I'm aware of the crazy Velux prices. Are there no alternatives that get close in quality? Surely someone must have be giving them some competition

Bendy_House

delmonta said:

Thanks all really useful advice. I will have to check where the boundary is. There is a strange gap between their fence and my wall. But everything is wonky around here! 

Yes it will be flat roofed so 2.5m metres max height. Do you know if you can install Velux windows on a roof like this, with such a shallow pitch? As the sides and back will be agains the boundaries, I was thinking of just a Velux and then the big doors, but need something that opens to ventilate

Is 300mm enough for any maintenance? That would just about fit me! Thats good to know you can pre assemble and do it that way, but as you say maybe best to not in case of any issues. I just don't want it protruding into the garden too much

I saw one guy just used OSB board on the back and sides and then used Yacht varnish as you wouldn't see those walls. Doesn't seem like a very full proof long term solution. What do you think? What would be best, you mentioned metal? Is there any sheet material that would work, to make it quick rather that cladding? 

For the roof light, I'd personally either go for a roof lantern - if looks were important - or just fabricate my own skylight; a raised timber/OSB plinth which will be fully sealed with whatever roof covering you are going for, with a double-glazed unit (as fitted in windows) adhered/sealed on top, with a couple of brackets to ensure it doesn't get blown off... A nice L-trim all the way around for aesthetics, and weatherproofing the DG edges. Cost? ~£100 for the DG unit.

I'd leave all 'openers' to the walls - far less costly, and easy to access.

You should have zero issues with damp, however long you leave it unattended for - provided you have effective trickle vents. Or cracking open a window will do.

Yes, 300mm is pushing it - it really would just be a sideways shuffle-space in order to clear away accumulations of debris, tighten a screw, apply a coat of whatever.

By metal cladding, I mean like box-section roofing sheets - these can be ordered cut to the required length, and simply overlap and screw through.

Careful design - ensure the room is raised off the ground on concrete or blacks (or similar) and are separated by a DPC layer from the joists which take over. Once the walls are built, ensure the outer skin - sheet metal cladding or whatever - drops below the wall level but a few inches off the ground so that all the rain runs off and cannot get to any of the shed's actual structure.

Bare or varnished OSB could well last 10 years, but shouldn't be considered a permanent solution. So if you don't have access for upkeep, then I'd suggest don't do it :-)

Doozergirl

delmonta said:

Doozergirl said:

delmonta said:

doningtonphil said:

Hello. My first garden building was from Sanctumgardenstudios.com in Chorley. Arrived on site at 8am, fully built and electrics plugged in by 1pm. 
They seemed the best price for the 'prebuilt' garden pods.
2nd garden office I 'built myself'.
Concreted threaded rods into the ground to provide adjustable support.
Liaised with a company off ebay who build SIP panels to your design (basically panels made of thick polystyrene  sandwiched between an inner and outer OSB 'skin').
Ordered a patio door from my local UPVC merchant and bought a Kingspan insulated metal roof off the guys from Sanctum.
Overall, about half the cost of Sanctum, but was far from being 'built in a morning'

Thanks, yeah I can't pay for one of the pre built ones or the companies. 

I am weighing up whether to use SIP panels or just build it the traditional way. I read one blog post saying how all these companies push SIP panels as being better because they are cheaper and more convenient. But they don't breathe at all and end up with issues in the future. But I dont really know

My house is built from SIPs, as are most of the house on Grand Designs these days.  All buildings need to breathe but the 'old' way is just to have a leaky building that is naturally draughty. As we need to conserve energy, airtight is the future for all of us.  

A SIPs build, or any airtight build, should have 'managed' ventilation.  A small MVHR unit will manage ventilation and recover heat, or binning off the airtight qualities in favour of two openings with trickle vents is an option, but I'd say that complaints about SIPs are born from ignorance and expecting them to be the same as traditional construction.  In fact, I've seen plenty of complaints about condensation in all sorts of garden buildings, so I think it's a general ignorance about the balance of heat and ventilation needed in property.  

They're not cheap at all but they are an easy build and exceptionally strong.  

This is interesting, yeah I only read one post writing negatively about Sips. I obviously want to avoid damp, but also to keep it warm. 

For such a small build and with no access apart from through the house maybe Sips aren't practical or even cheaper in my case? What do you think? There is a possibility to get them all in over the neighbours gardens if they are manageable by 4 or 5 people? 

You'd get them all in through the front door! 

Doozergirl

Terraced house, South West London. SIPs.  All in through the front door. 

Not cheap though as I wouldn't build anything that can be described as a shed.  We're aiming at meeting building regulations with ours and adding proper value as an extension. 

You really don't need an additional
roof light when you've got big doors.  There is plenty of light and you're only making the thing less energy efficient in winter and turning it into a summer sweat box.  

The picture isn't of ours, but ours is cool
when the back of the house is warm from the summer sun because the windows face in opposite directions, so it provides a welcome respite.  

delmonta

Bendy_House said:

delmonta said:

Thanks all really useful advice. I will have to check where the boundary is. There is a strange gap between their fence and my wall. But everything is wonky around here! 

Yes it will be flat roofed so 2.5m metres max height. Do you know if you can install Velux windows on a roof like this, with such a shallow pitch? As the sides and back will be agains the boundaries, I was thinking of just a Velux and then the big doors, but need something that opens to ventilate

Is 300mm enough for any maintenance? That would just about fit me! Thats good to know you can pre assemble and do it that way, but as you say maybe best to not in case of any issues. I just don't want it protruding into the garden too much

I saw one guy just used OSB board on the back and sides and then used Yacht varnish as you wouldn't see those walls. Doesn't seem like a very full proof long term solution. What do you think? What would be best, you mentioned metal? Is there any sheet material that would work, to make it quick rather that cladding? 

For the roof light, I'd personally either go for a roof lantern - if looks were important - or just fabricate my own skylight; a raised timber/OSB plinth which will be fully sealed with whatever roof covering you are going for, with a double-glazed unit (as fitted in windows) adhered/sealed on top, with a couple of brackets to ensure it doesn't get blown off... A nice L-trim all the way around for aesthetics, and weatherproofing the DG edges. Cost? ~£100 for the DG unit.

I'd leave all 'openers' to the walls - far less costly, and easy to access.

You should have zero issues with damp, however long you leave it unattended for - provided you have effective trickle vents. Or cracking open a window will do.

Yes, 300mm is pushing it - it really would just be a sideways shuffle-space in order to clear away accumulations of debris, tighten a screw, apply a coat of whatever.

By metal cladding, I mean like box-section roofing sheets - these can be ordered cut to the required length, and simply overlap and screw through.

Careful design - ensure the room is raised off the ground on concrete or blacks (or similar) and are separated by a DPC layer from the joists which take over. Once the walls are built, ensure the outer skin - sheet metal cladding or whatever - drops below the wall level but a few inches off the ground so that all the rain runs off and cannot get to any of the shed's actual structure.

Bare or varnished OSB could well last 10 years, but shouldn't be considered a permanent solution. So if you don't have access for upkeep, then I'd suggest don't do it :-)

Thanks for all the info, very useful!!

Yes maybe you are right, I could just have a small window or two on the front either side of the door that opens. Leaving the doors open is fine too, but not practical if I'm out for a while etc.

So the cheapest option for a smallish roof light would be ideal, just to brighten up the place. 

I was thinking of using something for cladding which is zero maintenance and won't ever need coating. Maybe some sort of plastic cladding? It won't be seen. 

So do you think I can start building directly on top of my current paved garden, with blocks like you mentioned? It feels incredibly solid under my feet, but do you need deeper foundations? Almost everyone I've seen doing it is building on earth to start with. 

And the max height obviously is going to include the raised blocks, so what is the minimum you think I could use just to get it off the ground?

Thank you for all the tips, its all starting to make a bit more sense