change of use on title deeds from pedestrian to vehicular access

redjovie

Hi there I am considering buying a house which has specified in the title deeds that access to it  can be by foot only - its an old gatehouse. The house is set back from a main road and has a sizeable garden so parking could be created within the boundaries of the garden and access either from the country lane which runs along one boundary or the original access road to the original old manor house . The gate house needs significant works but this would be virtually impossible as contractors currently cannot park on site . Would I need to apply for planning permissions to change the use from foot to vehicles ? and if planning was granted would this be reflected in the title deeds  ? I'm very new to all of this and don't wont to go ahead with the purchase If ultimately we cant park or fix it- I have approached a solicitor who have advised to " proceed with extreme caution" but have failed to give any practical advice 
Has anyone experienced anything like this - all suggestions advice very gratefully received

user1977

Planning and title deeds are completely different things. If you want to change the right of access in the deeds then you'll need the agreement of whoever owns the land.

canaldumidi

I'm guessing there is some land owned by someone else between the road and the gatehouse. The gatehouse has a ROW over this intermediate land ie permission to walkk across someone else's land to get to the gatehouse.

If so, you would need the owner of that intermediate land to agree to a) extend the ROW to include vehicular acess and b) have a drive built across their land, probably at your cost, and probably with agreement that you take on liability to maintain that drive.

It's less likely that Planning Permission is the issue- though it might be.

More information needed eg exact wording in the Title deeds, and a Plan showing the road and drive and any other land.

Section62

canaldumidi said:

It's less likely that Planning Permission is the issue- though it might be.

Could be listed building issues if the old manor house is listed.

mjm3346

"and access...the original access road to the original old manor house" if that is a private drive and not a public road then apart from anything else you would need permission to use it

theoretica

Can you find out how/when that got onto the deeds?  Possibly when it was sold separate from the manor house?  Has the manor house change hands since then? 

Would any walls etc need taking down?  That would likely be a planning matter. 

Is the country road a council owned one and do you own land right to the boundary?  How close to a corner would you need the drive to be and how is visibility?

redjovie

Thank you everyone for your interest in this. The manor house no longer exists . A small housing estate  has been built in its place and Im “ assuming” that this was when the tile deed was created registering the property as a separate entity . I’m making this assumption as the property is much older than 1974 as stated in the title deed. The estate use the original driveway to the manor house as an access road . As yet no one has confirmed whether this is a private road but again I’m “ assuming” that this is the case . The country lane to the left of the property is council owned. To complicate matters further there is a culvert running close to the boundary of the property and the country lane. The title deeds state :

( 29.06.2004) The land has the benefit of the following rights granted by a conveyance of the land in this title dated 11th October 1974 made between the vendor and the purchaser.

Together with the right for the purchaser and his successors in title owners or occupiers for the time being of the property hereby conveyed and his and their undertenants and servants in common with all other persons for the time having the like right on foot only to pass and repass over and along the roadway delineated on the plan annexed hereto and thereon coloured in yellow and leads from the property hereby conveyed to the main highway in so far as the vendor can lawfully grant the same

I ill upload a photo of the plan 

redjovie

Here is the plan

Section62

redjovie said:

Thank you everyone for your interest in this. The manor house no longer exists . A small housing estate  has been built in its place and Im “ assuming” that this was when the tile deed was created registering the property as a separate entity . I’m making this assumption as the property is much older than 1974 as stated in the title deed. The estate use the original driveway to the manor house as an access road . As yet no one has confirmed whether this is a private road but again I’m “ assuming” that this is the case . The country lane to the left of the property is council owned.

If I'm looking at the correct location, then the track going to the left appears to be a public footpath only.  The former driveway is not showing on the council's plan as having any public right, which tends to suggest it is a private driveway.

To get vehicular access you'd almost certainly need to get permission from the owners of the 'private' driveway to form a new access and have vehicular rights from there to the public road.  You'd need to speak to the people living in those houses to find out what the situation is with the driveway.  It could be jointly owned by them, or it could be owned and managed by a third party.

However, it isn't clear there is enough land on that side of the property to have parking.  Have you checked the actual dimensions of the land?

There's more land on the left-hand side of the property - but it looks like there could be issues with level differences, and if the track is only a public footpath then you probably won't get permission from the council to have vehicular use of it.

There's no available planning history for the 'estate', but I wouldn't rule out the possibility that although the manor house has gone, some of the land (possibly including the gatehouse) may have formed part of the curtilage of the manor and may have some residual protection.  You really need to speak to the planners to make absolutely sure your plans would be Ok with them. (the only identified listed building is a stone bridge along the track to the left)

redjovie

Thanks @Section62 - the track to the left is a single track country lane. According to the L/A there is a footpath also but no actual footpath exists. The entire lane is tarmacked over never the less according to records one exists. We haven't measured the plot but will do so in  next couple  week. There are level differences on the left hand side but difficult to know how extreme these are due to overgrown vegetation - never the less we will explore further. I think that providing the level differences aren't too extreme and can be managed in some way we will approach the planners to discuss possibly opening up access and creating a parking space on the left handside . I would hope that they are sympathetic to our plight Afterall what would happen if emergency services were required ? thanks again for your advice

Section62

redjovie said:

Thanks @Section62 - the track to the left is a single track country lane. According to the L/A there is a footpath also but no actual footpath exists. The entire lane is tarmacked over never the less according to records one exists.

"Country lane" is what I'd use to describe a rural road open to the public for all traffic.  From the information I can see online the only public right is as a footpath*, which means the track is likely to be a private drive to the property near the (listed) stone bridge.  Beyond that point it appears the track is only wide enough for pedestrians, before coming out into a modern housing estate.  If it were in England then under the old definitions I think it might be termed a 'Green Lane' (I think Wales used the same definitions) being a 'highway' which was never 'made up' (metalled/tarred).

In my post I was using *footpath to mean a right of way for pedestrians only (e.g. the kind of thing that crosses fields) rather than the path at the side of a road (which legally is a 'footway').

Perhaps confusingly, what you seem to have here is a tarred public footpath with vehicular access to a private property, but it doesn't seem to be a public road.

The TL;DR of that is that although people with existing vehicular rights to use the 'footpath' can continue to drive along it, the council are probably under no obligation to allow new vehicular access rights, which they would be if it were a public road instead.

redjovie said:

There are level differences on the left hand side but difficult to know how extreme these are due to overgrown vegetation - never the less we will explore further. I think that providing the level differences aren't too extreme and can be managed in some way we will approach the planners to discuss possibly opening up access and creating a parking space on the left handside . I would hope that they are sympathetic to our plight

It is hard to tell from the streetview images - the vegetation is a real problem - but from the slope of the track I'd estimate the level difference between the track and the garden of the house could be around a metre or more on that left-hand side.  It also raises the question whether the wall is retaining the ground and thus providing support to the house - and if so, who is responsible for maintaining it.

redjovie said:

Afterall what would happen if emergency services were required ? thanks again for your advice

That one is easy.  They would just do what they needed to do to deal with the emergency.  A landowner aggrieved that their land/private road had been used by the emergency services without permission would need to ask a court for redress.  No court is going to find in favour of a claimant unless actual physical damage has been done to their property.  The emergency would be dealt with, the consequences would be sorted out later.