Sewer not adopted by Thames Water

UnDelme

Hello all

Bought a house recently, and discovered (smelled rather) a sewer in a front yard, serving my house along with 2 other houses next door.

Thames Water insist they don't own it, and re-checking solicitor searches indeed it is marked as private.

The house is ex-council, built in 1960s, and bought out in 1990s I think.

Now, my understanding is that all private sewers existing before 2011 would automatically be adopted by local service company. My questions would be:

1) How come this sewer was not automatically adopted?

2) How can I make Thames Water adopt it now?

TW site has some guidance for developers, but couldn't find anything regarding sewer adoption for homeowners.

Would be grateful if anyone could shed a light on where do I stand legally, please?

Huge thanks in advance

Section62

UnDelme said:

Hello all

Bought a house recently, and discovered (smelled rather) a sewer in a front yard, serving my house along with 2 other houses next door.

Thames Water insist they don't own it, and re-checking solicitor searches indeed it is marked as private.

The house is ex-council, built in 1960s, and bought out in 1990s I think.

Is it foul, or surface water?  (smell alone isn't a reliable guide)  And are the properties in a rural or urban location?

UnDelme said:

Now, my understanding is that all private sewers existing before 2011 would automatically be adopted by local service company.

That isn't completely correct.  There were various conditions including that the drain had to serve more than one property (or crossed a property boundary) and that the sewer ultimately discharged into a public sewer.

Two of the possible reasons why your pipe may be private could be because it discharges to a watercourse rather than a public sewer, or it could discharge to a private treatment plant.

UnDelme

  There were various conditions including that the drain had to serve more than one property (or crossed a property boundary) and that the sewer ultimately discharged into a public sewer.

Thanks Section62.

This is a foul sewer, in SE London (Greenwich).

It does serve several properties, and discharges into public sewer (owned by TW) in the street immediately outside the property - confirmed by sewer map provided by solicitor.

3card

UnDelme said:

  There were various conditions including that the drain had to serve more than one property (or crossed a property boundary) and that the sewer ultimately discharged into a public sewer.

Thanks Section62.

This is a foul sewer, in SE London (Greenwich).

It does serve several properties, and discharges into public sewer (owned by TW) in the street immediately outside the property - confirmed by sewer map provided by solicitor.

What reason did they give as to why its not their problem?

We live in a private (unadopted road) and until the legislation came into being we always had to pay for any blocked sewers but it is now the responsibility of the water company
Our sewers serve 9 properties and they run into a sewer which was orginally installed in the early 20th century

Section62

UnDelme said:

  There were various conditions including that the drain had to serve more than one property (or crossed a property boundary) and that the sewer ultimately discharged into a public sewer.

Thanks Section62.

This is a foul sewer, in SE London (Greenwich).

It does serve several properties, and discharges into public sewer (owned by TW) in the street immediately outside the property - confirmed by sewer map provided by solicitor.

There's no obvious reason why the shared parts wouldn't be public sewers then.

Thames Water might have a record of it being a private sewer (prior to 2011) and haven't updated their records.  I would push them to recognise it as being public - you don't need to get it adopted, if it meets the criteria then it is a public sewer, no action was required to effect that change in status.

Doozergirl

Section62 said:

UnDelme said:

  There were various conditions including that the drain had to serve more than one property (or crossed a property boundary) and that the sewer ultimately discharged into a public sewer.

Thanks Section62.

This is a foul sewer, in SE London (Greenwich).

It does serve several properties, and discharges into public sewer (owned by TW) in the street immediately outside the property - confirmed by sewer map provided by solicitor.

There's no obvious reason why the shared parts wouldn't be public sewers then.

Thames Water might have a record of it being a private sewer (prior to 2011) and haven't updated their records.  I would push them to recognise it as being public - you don't need to get it adopted, if it meets the criteria then it is a public sewer, no action was required to effect that change in status.

I agree with this, but have you actually had direct contact with TW during conveyancing about this specific issue as it isn't normal procedure to do that during the conveyancing process? 

If you did, what was the reason? 

babyblade41

Doozergirl said:

Section62 said:

UnDelme said:

  There were various conditions including that the drain had to serve more than one property (or crossed a property boundary) and that the sewer ultimately discharged into a public sewer.

Thanks Section62.

This is a foul sewer, in SE London (Greenwich).

It does serve several properties, and discharges into public sewer (owned by TW) in the street immediately outside the property - confirmed by sewer map provided by solicitor.

There's no obvious reason why the shared parts wouldn't be public sewers then.

Thames Water might have a record of it being a private sewer (prior to 2011) and haven't updated their records.  I would push them to recognise it as being public - you don't need to get it adopted, if it meets the criteria then it is a public sewer, no action was required to effect that change in status.

I agree with this, but have you actually had direct contact with TW during conveyancing about this specific issue as it isn't normal procedure to do that during the conveyancing process? 

If you did, what was the reason? 

To try to get to speak to anyone in TW would be nigh on impossible... has taken me 2 years to get to speak to a person this side of the pond , let alone speak to anyone with knowledge 

Doozergirl

babyblade41 said:

Doozergirl said:

Section62 said:

UnDelme said:

  There were various conditions including that the drain had to serve more than one property (or crossed a property boundary) and that the sewer ultimately discharged into a public sewer.

Thanks Section62.

This is a foul sewer, in SE London (Greenwich).

It does serve several properties, and discharges into public sewer (owned by TW) in the street immediately outside the property - confirmed by sewer map provided by solicitor.

There's no obvious reason why the shared parts wouldn't be public sewers then.

Thames Water might have a record of it being a private sewer (prior to 2011) and haven't updated their records.  I would push them to recognise it as being public - you don't need to get it adopted, if it meets the criteria then it is a public sewer, no action was required to effect that change in status.

I agree with this, but have you actually had direct contact with TW during conveyancing about this specific issue as it isn't normal procedure to do that during the conveyancing process? 

If you did, what was the reason? 

To try to get to speak to anyone in TW would be nigh on impossible... has taken me 2 years to get to speak to a person this side of the pond , let alone speak to anyone with knowledge 

I wasn't really suggesting that they did, I was more asking why they did, because you wouldn't normally have a direct discussion with a water company during conveyancing.   You'd get your searches back and then assume that any shared drains that weren't mapped were the property of TW, because the 2011 adoption post-dates any deeds or their own mapping.   

UnDelme

Thames Water might have a record of it being a private sewer (prior to 2011) and haven't updated their records.  I would push them to recognise it as being public - you don't need to get it adopted, if it meets the criteria then it is a public sewer, no action was required to effect that change in status.

I didn't speak to TW during conveyancing. Sewer map from searches did indicate that sewer is private, but at the time I didn't think of it much.

It became an issue when it became blocked, that's when I called TW emergency line and they told me the sewer does not belong to them according to their records.

I might try calling emergency line again and keep insisting that sewer is public by definition. Wouldn't expect positive response from those guys though.

Anyone aware of better TW contact?

UnDelme

here's the actual map from searches

Section62

UnDelme said:

Thames Water might have a record of it being a private sewer (prior to 2011) and haven't updated their records.  I would push them to recognise it as being public - you don't need to get it adopted, if it meets the criteria then it is a public sewer, no action was required to effect that change in status.

I didn't speak to TW during conveyancing. Sewer map from searches did indicate that sewer is private, but at the time I didn't think of it much.

It became an issue when it became blocked, that's when I called TW emergency line and they told me the sewer does not belong to them according to their records.

I might try calling emergency line again and keep insisting that sewer is public by definition. Wouldn't expect positive response from those guys though.

Anyone aware of better TW contact?

Ok, so they do have a record if it, showing it as private.

I suspect the people you've spoken to have looked at that information, rather than applying the current legal position.

If they won't listen then the next thing to do is probably to make a formal complaint.  If you had to pay to clear the blockage you should have good grounds to be able to claim that cost back based on being given incorrect information by TW.

If a formal complaint to TW doesn't work, you'll have the right to complain to the Consumer Council for Water (CCW) (like an ombudsman service)

https://www.thameswater.co.uk/help/how-to-complain

From what's shown on that plan I'd be 99.9% certain the sewer on the highlighted property is now public.