NHS Staff member fined on NHS premises and received a letter from County Court Business Centre

HullKel

Hello

I am wondering if anybody could help my colleague regarding the following situation. We apologise in advance as we are all new to this, but appreciate any help offered.

My colleague works for Hull and East Yorkshire NHS trust. Parking for staff at the hospital is awful and the trust have acknowledged that there are more permits issued than staff parking places available. It has since asked for staff to re-apply for permits and not grant them to those living within a so many mile radius. The situation in question occurred prior to this change. 

My colleague had arrived at work before her start time of 8am, but couldn't find a staff parking space anywhere. By 8:20 she was getting so stressed that patients and colleagues were waiting for her arrival, that she parked in the first place that she saw available. This was a daily occurrence for all staff at this point Feb 2020, and my colleague parked in the same place on two occasions, resulting in two parking notices.

Following advice from staff at the time she was told to ignore the letters as they eventually drop them, and indeed the trust itself had admitted they never pursue it to the point of a CCJ. However (and this is the complication) the car park she parked in, although an NHS car park actually, belongs to a separate trust (she works for Hull and East Yorkshire trust, she parked in a car park for Humber NHS trust). Now in her defence the car park she used is not barriered or separated in anyway from the trust car parks we use (see bottom photo below). The first and second photo shows how poor the signage is (the middle blue panel is meant to read 'Parking for Staff and Visitors to Mill View only) and the painting is rubbed off.
The signs within the car park state permit holders only (she is a permit holder just not for that trust and with no separation e.g a barrier this is not that clear).

Finally the trust she works for adopts white parking bays for staff only and blue parking bays for visitors and patients. Where she parked was a white parking bay so again you can understand her reasoning when stressed and late for work, that it was OK to park here.

The problem we now face is she has received two separate letters (on the same day dated 08/02/22) from the County Court Business Centre asking for a total of over £600 for the combined offences. I find this disgusting that an honest member of NHS staff when on the cusp of the pandemic was trying so hard to find a parking space, was late on both occasions and pays for her NHS permit could honestly be asked to pay over £600. 

We will register and complete the acknowledge of service and then prepare a defence letter as per the template provided in the newbies section. Any other information would be greatly received.

Thanks in advance.

Fruitcake

It is neither a fine nor an offence. Your colleague should: -

Complain to the head of the trust responsible for the particular car park. Remind them of their obligations required by the government requirements for NHS parking, and point out they are in breach of a government mandate.

NHS car parking guidance 2022 for NHS trusts and NHS foundation trusts - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)


Get union reps involved.

Complain to their MP, the PM, and the Minister of State for Health.

Follow the guide to court written by bargepole, which you appear to have already found. Complete the AoS on or after day 6 from the issue date of each claim.
Write to the claimant and instruct them to combine both cases. Refer them to Henderson vs Henderson estoppel as your guide for this. Repeat this at every stage of contact with the PPC and the court.

Do not submit the defence with the AoS. It must be emailed later to the CCBC. Use the template defence and add in things like frustration of contract (had a permit but no spaces available) inadequate signage (signs don't specify that a different permit is needed for different areas), contract void for impossibility (more permits than spaces) amongst other things.

HullKel

Thankyou for this Fruitcake.
I’ve spoken to one of our union reps who said :

Its a different trust and as It’s listed as ‘civil inforcement ltd’ which is different to our APCOA and is basically like a council ticket which you have to pay.

Fruitcake

You need to find a union rep who isn't so clueless or gullible to be taken in by a company using the word enforcement in their name to make them look official when they are nothing of the sort, and who actually knows what they are talking about, or send them here to be educated.

Civil Enforcement Ltd is just another unregulated private parking company that just happens to be infesting a different car park to the one that APCOA infest. This is an invoice from an unregulated company, and nothing like a council ticket. Nobody is required to pay one of these unless a judge says so.

Your union rep needs to get up to speed and fight for her/his members, and should be battering the hospital trusts to get them to conform to the government mandate to which I provided a link earlier.

I expect CEL have added a fake debt collection or admin cost of around £70, but the UK government has stated that these are not allowed and are just an attempt to extort money. 

Trainerman

I just want to really emphasise the post from @Fruitcake at 2.29 which really hits the nail on the head. CEL are nothing like a Council ticket, and that Union rep could really do a lot of good, if (a) getting knowledge about this and then (b) collating data from your colleagues about how many have been caught by this scam, through no fault of their own.

Then taking the data to the Trust, and the press if need be. As the OP says , disgusting that people looking after the rest of us during the pandemic are being penalised like this.

For what it is worth, given the circumstances you describe, I think and hope that a Judge would see through this.

Do put up your paras 2 and 3 (or more) to add to the defence template so that help can be given with that

Jumblebumble

Fruitcake said:

You need to find a union rep who isn't so clueless or gullible to be taken in by a company using the word enforcement in their name to make them look official when they are nothing of the sort, and who actually knows what they are talking about, or send them here to be educated.

Civil Enforcement Ltd is just another unregulated private parking company that just happens to be infesting a different car park to the one that APCOA infest. This is an invoice from an unregulated company, and nothing like a council ticket. Nobody is required to pay one of these unless a judge says so.

Your union rep needs to get up to speed and fight for her/his members, and should be battering the hospital trusts to get them to conform to the government mandate to which I provided a link earlier.

I expect CEL have added a fake debt collection or admin cost of around £70, but the UK government has stated that these are not allowed and are just an attempt to extort money. 

I would be astonished if a trust has any obligation  to apply guidelines or parking concessions  to NHS staff that they do not actually employ. 

Fruitcake

The parking principles do not differentiate between NHS patients or staff or visitors from one trust as opposed to another. What you are suggesting is that anyone on secondment, or transferring a patient by ambulance (which are not exempt from private parking charges because the PoFA allows it) or sent out to pick up medical samples/test results/equipment from a different trust/GP surgery/urgent car centre would not be covered by the government's mandate. 

The guidelines include requirements to follow the new government parking code of practice, even though it is not yet in force.

The whole premise of the guidelines is to prevent income being generated from parking enforcement alone, which is at variance to what has happened to the OP.

Coupon-mad

I’ve spoken to one of our union reps who said :
Its a different trust and as It’s listed as ‘civil inforcement ltd’ which is different to our APCOA and is basically like a council ticket which you have to pay.

Whaaaat...no it's not!

Both CEL and APCOA are just bog standard PPCs in the BPA.  There's no difference!

Please email your union rep and tell him to STOP giving people that utter rubbish misinformation.  I think he is confused by their deliberately misleading company name, passing off as official council enforcement.  IT IS NOT.

And that sign doesn't have a term saying anything about incurring a charge for being 'parked out of bay lines'.

They could have added that term but they didn't.  It's not even implied!  You ONLY have to be a permit holder (that's all) and you don't even have to display it.

Easy to defend on that contract law basis.

HullKel

Coupon-mad said:

I’ve spoken to one of our union reps who said :
Its a different trust and as It’s listed as ‘civil inforcement ltd’ which is different to our APCOA and is basically like a council ticket which you have to pay.

Whaaaat...no it's not!

Both CEL and APCOA are just bog standard PPCs in the BPA.  There's no difference!

Please email your union rep and tell him to STOP giving people that utter rubbish misinformation.  I think he is confused by their deliberately misleading company name, passing off as official council enforcement.  IT IS NOT.

And that sign doesn't have a term saying anything about incurring a charge for being 'parked out of bay lines'.

They could have added that term but they didn't.  It's not even implied!  You ONLY have to be a permit holder (that's all) and you don't even have to display it.

Easy to defend on that contract law basis.

Really appreciate everyone’s help here! It’s good to know there are good people out there willing to help. I will advice to complete the AoS tomorrow NOT including a defence at this stage. We shall then definitely post our amended paragraphs on here for scrutiny and amendments based on your superior knowledge. Then follow your advice on what to do next.

thanks again everyone 

MothballsWallet

OP, it sounds like the union rep is as clueless as Priti Patel...

Johnersh

What are the dates of the pcns? One is Feb 2020, I see.  nhs parking charges were suspended in March, which might make it more difficult for them to enforce a charge thereafter.