Told we can't rent 3-bed house because it's not a HMO

[Deleted User]

MaryNB said:

kmb500 said:

The house (or any house in our area for 3 people) doesn't require a licence, but there's still some basic regulations. https://www.scambs.gov.uk/licensing/houses-in-multiple-occupation-hmo/

One of us, regardless of this, still intends to keep his "main" / "registered" residential address as his current family house (for various reasons that I wont go into).

So I'm wondering, if 2 of us were to be tenants and the 3rd person just "spends a lot of time" at the house, is this allowed? He would still be paying 1/3 of the rent/bills, but not technically living there. Or is this considered subletting, even though we wouldn't have any formal agreement with him?

I want to put myself in the best position for tomorrow when I call the agent back.

May seem like I am being fussy over this particular house, well I am as it's perfect, and we have only been interested in renting in this particular village (village of ~3,000 people, so theres not gonna be many, if any, set up HMOs)

If they pay you rent in exchange for accommodation it will be deemed a tenancy. 

Even if a licence isn't required the landlord may only have a standard BTL mortgage, not a specific one for HMOs so may not be able to let a HMO under their mortgage terms. I think HMOs that do not require a licence are still subject to additional requirements, above standard lets. 

Mary makes two good points. HMOs that do not require a licence still require the likes of a fire risk assessment and modifications such as interlinked smoke alarms and emergency lighting.

Your best bet is to look for a private house which is aimed at student or young professional let with 3 rooms max. Sometimes the whole house will be let on a single contact  or it will be by the room. These should be hmo compliant already. 

kmb500

MaryNB said:

kmb500 said:

The house (or any house in our area for 3 people) doesn't require a licence, but there's still some basic regulations. https://www.scambs.gov.uk/licensing/houses-in-multiple-occupation-hmo/

One of us, regardless of this, still intends to keep his "main" / "registered" residential address as his current family house (for various reasons that I wont go into).

So I'm wondering, if 2 of us were to be tenants and the 3rd person just "spends a lot of time" at the house, is this allowed? He would still be paying 1/3 of the rent/bills, but not technically living there. Or is this considered subletting, even though we wouldn't have any formal agreement with him?

I want to put myself in the best position for tomorrow when I call the agent back.

May seem like I am being fussy over this particular house, well I am as it's perfect, and we have only been interested in renting in this particular village (village of ~3,000 people, so theres not gonna be many, if any, set up HMOs)

If they pay you rent in exchange for accommodation it will be deemed a tenancy. 

Even if a licence isn't required the landlord may only have a standard BTL mortgage, not a specific one for HMOs so may not be able to let a HMO under their mortgage terms. I think HMOs that do not require a licence are still subject to additional requirements, above standard lets. 

I see, I hadn't thought about the landlords mortgage being dependent on that.

kmb500

[Deleted User] said:

MaryNB said:

kmb500 said:

The house (or any house in our area for 3 people) doesn't require a licence, but there's still some basic regulations. https://www.scambs.gov.uk/licensing/houses-in-multiple-occupation-hmo/

One of us, regardless of this, still intends to keep his "main" / "registered" residential address as his current family house (for various reasons that I wont go into).

So I'm wondering, if 2 of us were to be tenants and the 3rd person just "spends a lot of time" at the house, is this allowed? He would still be paying 1/3 of the rent/bills, but not technically living there. Or is this considered subletting, even though we wouldn't have any formal agreement with him?

I want to put myself in the best position for tomorrow when I call the agent back.

May seem like I am being fussy over this particular house, well I am as it's perfect, and we have only been interested in renting in this particular village (village of ~3,000 people, so theres not gonna be many, if any, set up HMOs)

If they pay you rent in exchange for accommodation it will be deemed a tenancy. 

Even if a licence isn't required the landlord may only have a standard BTL mortgage, not a specific one for HMOs so may not be able to let a HMO under their mortgage terms. I think HMOs that do not require a licence are still subject to additional requirements, above standard lets. 

Mary makes two good points. HMOs that do not require a licence still require the likes of a fire risk assessment and modifications such as interlinked smoke alarms and emergency lighting.

Your best bet is to look for a private house which is aimed at student or young professional let with 3 rooms max. Sometimes the whole house will be let on a single contact  or it will be by the room. These should be hmo compliant already. 

Do you know how we would go about finding a house like that?

We have been looking on Rightmove for months and I don't think we have seen 3-bed HMOs.

I wouldn't have thought that there are many houses of 3-bed size that have been set up with HMO use in mind, in our area of villages. If any at all. And of those, how many will be on the market in next 2 months before I am homeless.

It feels so frustrating that 3 friends cannot just rent a house they want to live in.

Hedgepigs

MaryNB said:

kmb500 said:

The house (or any house in our area for 3 people) doesn't require a licence, but there's still some basic regulations. https://www.scambs.gov.uk/licensing/houses-in-multiple-occupation-hmo/

One of us, regardless of this, still intends to keep his "main" / "registered" residential address as his current family house (for various reasons that I wont go into).

So I'm wondering, if 2 of us were to be tenants and the 3rd person just "spends a lot of time" at the house, is this allowed? He would still be paying 1/3 of the rent/bills, but not technically living there. Or is this considered subletting, even though we wouldn't have any formal agreement with him?

I want to put myself in the best position for tomorrow when I call the agent back.

May seem like I am being fussy over this particular house, well I am as it's perfect, and we have only been interested in renting in this particular village (village of ~3,000 people, so theres not gonna be many, if any, set up HMOs)

If they pay you rent in exchange for accommodation it will be deemed a tenancy. 

What if they pay no rent, but all bills? 

Obviously they would also not be in a rental contract do could leave whenever they wanted and not be liable for any costs. And not be directly responsible to the landlord for damages at end of tenancy etc.

However it's probably a bit of a moot point with rentals with that particular agency anyway, as they'll probably suss the new relationship and regular visitor story...

[Deleted User]

You could look on spareroom

kmb500

[Deleted User] said:

You could look on spareroom

Spare room is for... spare rooms. I can't find any full houses available on spareroom.

MaryNB

kmb500 said:

[Deleted User] said:

You could look on spareroom

Spare room is for... spare rooms. I can't find any full houses available on spareroom.

In the filters you can select "whole properties suitable for sharing" 

kmb500

MaryNB said:

kmb500 said:

[Deleted User] said:

You could look on spareroom

Spare room is for... spare rooms. I can't find any full houses available on spareroom.

In the filters you can select "whole properties suitable for sharing" 

I've had a look, on spareroom, and. Nothing. Within a 20 mile radius there is only 1 house that's 3-bed for sharers.

How are a group of 3 people meant to find a house together? I never imagined it would be this hard. I thought this was a common thing, for a group of friends to move out together in a rental property? But apparently not? 

I've now spoken to 6 lettings agents and they all said they never have any 3-bed HMOs. The agents said it's unusual for 3 people to rent together, it's usually 2 people, or a larger group like 5 students.. but we aren't students, we are all mid-20s.

MaryNB

It's very common, I was in houseshares for 7 years after graduation. I was sharing before the additional licencing was brought in where I live so wasn't a big issue for me.

It's now an issue in Bristol where demand massively outstrips supply and they're continuing to extend the additional HMO licencing requirements into wider areas. A few grads started in my office over the pandemic and really struggled to secure properties to share. So many places are for families only. 

newsgroupmonkey_

Bear in mind HMO mortgages can be often different.

Not all BTL mortgages allow HMO.