Smart meter still on old prices (before 1st April)

sebtomato

MWT said:

sebtomato said:

Of course, people might say it doesn't matter because EDF will get the readings per 30 minute slots, and can therefore apply the right rates when calculating the bill.

However, my meter is a "five pole" model, and is activating some appliance when it thinks off peak hours should be used... So it's not just a backend billing calculation issue.

Generally E7 tariffs are not managed using half-hour data, there are set up to use R01 &R02 registers.

With a 5 pole meter the control of switching the circuit is managed by the ALCS settings in the meter, if those are wrong then it will switch at the wrong time of day, and they can be wrong in a way that is separate from the logic that switches which register is accumulating the consumption.

You should have enough information from the half-hour data to figure out if EDf are billing you according to the ALCS schedule or not, and if not then call support and tell them your ALCS settings are wrong.

It may take some persistence to get through to anyone in support that knows what that means though...

According to the Bright app, I am on an off peak tariff between 22:30 and 07:30 currently...

I guess that's based on data sent by the smart meter back to the DSC, so the smart meter thinks it's in off peak time much longer than expected (9 hours per day), and during the wrong hours (should start at 23:30, and finish at 08:30 currently).

MWT

sebtomato said:

MWT said:

sebtomato said:

Of course, people might say it doesn't matter because EDF will get the readings per 30 minute slots, and can therefore apply the right rates when calculating the bill.

However, my meter is a "five pole" model, and is activating some appliance when it thinks off peak hours should be used... So it's not just a backend billing calculation issue.

Generally E7 tariffs are not managed using half-hour data, there are set up to use R01 &R02 registers.

With a 5 pole meter the control of switching the circuit is managed by the ALCS settings in the meter, if those are wrong then it will switch at the wrong time of day, and they can be wrong in a way that is separate from the logic that switches which register is accumulating the consumption.

You should have enough information from the half-hour data to figure out if EDf are billing you according to the ALCS schedule or not, and if not then call support and tell them your ALCS settings are wrong.

It may take some persistence to get through to anyone in support that knows what that means though...

According to the Bright app, I am on an off peak tariff between 22:30 and 07:30 currently...

I guess that's based on data sent by the smart meter back to the DSC, so the smart meter thinks it's in off peak time much longer than expected (9 hours per day), and during the wrong hours (should start at 23:30, and finish at 08:30 currently).

Yes, that is confirming the way the tariff date is configured on the meter, you need to look at your actual billing from EDF to see if they are billing you that way as well...

Ultrasonic

sebtomato said:

Ultrasonic said:

I think you've rather just made up your own 'primary intent' of smart meters there. For starters the smart meters are the big things connected to the incoming gas and electricity supplies, not the small in-home display that most will look at. Beyond that the biggest benefits have nothing to do with showing data to customers.

I don't think so. All the communication I see about smart meters (for individual households) is about helping controlling cost, even with plans to change the cost during the day to deter people during peak hours.

Many people don't know what's a Kwh and can't convert that to a cost.

I think it's a typical example of an implementation losing focus of the original intents along the way.

Surely, if my meter is capable of sending usage data every 30 minutes, then it should be capable of fetching new tariff data within a day.

I think that more reflects how consumers are being encouraged to adopt smart meters. Have a Google for what a 'smart grid' is for the real reasons behind the switch to smart meters.

sebtomato

MWT said:

sebtomato said:

MWT said:

sebtomato said:

Of course, people might say it doesn't matter because EDF will get the readings per 30 minute slots, and can therefore apply the right rates when calculating the bill.

However, my meter is a "five pole" model, and is activating some appliance when it thinks off peak hours should be used... So it's not just a backend billing calculation issue.

Generally E7 tariffs are not managed using half-hour data, there are set up to use R01 &R02 registers.

With a 5 pole meter the control of switching the circuit is managed by the ALCS settings in the meter, if those are wrong then it will switch at the wrong time of day, and they can be wrong in a way that is separate from the logic that switches which register is accumulating the consumption.

You should have enough information from the half-hour data to figure out if EDf are billing you according to the ALCS schedule or not, and if not then call support and tell them your ALCS settings are wrong.

It may take some persistence to get through to anyone in support that knows what that means though...

According to the Bright app, I am on an off peak tariff between 22:30 and 07:30 currently...

I guess that's based on data sent by the smart meter back to the DSC, so the smart meter thinks it's in off peak time much longer than expected (9 hours per day), and during the wrong hours (should start at 23:30, and finish at 08:30 currently).

Yes, that is confirming the way the tariff date is configured on the meter, you need to look at your actual billing from EDF to see if they are billing you that way as well...

On my last bill received by EDF:

"Night: 22:30 - 00:30 and at least 5 hours in 02:15 - 07:45 usually 02:30 - 07:30"

That was before summer time, so would expect now 23:30 to 01:30, and then 03:30 to 08:30 (as it was the case when I had my old meter).

So basically, we are saying I will be billed based on what the meter thinks should go in R01 and R02 (clearly based on wrong hours currently), but the rates applicable to R01 and R02 on the meter will be ignored, and applied by EDF on the backend...

What a mess!

MWT

It is correct to say that the monetary amounts shown on the meter are not used for billing.

Do use your half-hour data to confirm the way EDF are actually billing you, do the bills show a total for day/night for example? if so then see if that reconciles correctly with the half-hour data.

Also do not assume that the hours shift between GMT & BST as with smart meters that does not have to be the case....

sebtomato

MWT said:

Do use your half-hour data to confirm the way EDF are actually billing you, do the bills show a total for day/night for example? if so then see if that reconciles correctly with the half-hour data.

That will be impossible to do for me. They only send bills every 6 months, so me keeping all 30 minutes data for 6 months is too much.

The EDF bill does show Day and Night usage in KWh and rates applicable. I will need to check if the KWh are indeed matching R1 and R2 on the meter, in term of usage.

If they want to give me 9 hours per day of "off peak" hours (accounted against R2) instead of the 7 I had before per night, because they can't be bothered to send the correct data to the meter, good for me!

MWT

sebtomato said:

The EDF bill does show Day and Night usage in KWh and rates applicable. I will need to check if the KWh are indeed matching R1 and R2 on the meter, in term of usage.

That should achieve the same end as if you do a couple of manual readings 24 hours apart, you can use your half-hour data to verify the difference between the two.

sebtomato

MWT said:

sebtomato said:

The EDF bill does show Day and Night usage in KWh and rates applicable. I will need to check if the KWh are indeed matching R1 and R2 on the meter, in term of usage.

That should achieve the same end as if you do a couple of manual readings 24 hours apart, you can use your half-hour data to verify the difference between the two.

I could get such data from the DSC, but not from EDF. I can't generate bills on demand, nor see usage in their website currently.

QrizB

sebtomato said:

On my last bill received by EDF:
"Night: 22:30 - 00:30 and at least 5 hours in 02:15 - 07:45 usually 02:30 - 07:30"
That was before summer time, so would expect now 23:30 to 01:30, and then 03:30 to 08:30 (as it was the case when I had my old meter).
So basically, we are saying I will be billed based on what the meter thinks should go in R01 and R02 (clearly based on wrong hours currently), but the rates applicable to R01 and R02 on the meter will be ignored, and applied by EDF on the backend...

I don't think we're saying that at all.

Your meter will be set to give you seven hours of cheap-rate electricity each night. During those seven hours your electricity will accrue on your night-rate register (probably R02) while the rest of the time, it will accrue on your day-rate regicter (probably R01).

You will be billed for R01 use at the day rate and R02 on the night rate.

The same meter timings that switch you from day rate to night rate will energise the 5th terminal on your meter.

In your case, there is a gap in the cheap rate from 0030 to (probably) 0230.

What might be wrong is the price (not kWh) displayed on your smart meter if it thinks the "gap" has been billed at R02 prices not R01 ones. This will have no effect on your actual bill.

sebtomato

QrizB said:

sebtomato said:

On my last bill received by EDF:
"Night: 22:30 - 00:30 and at least 5 hours in 02:15 - 07:45 usually 02:30 - 07:30"
That was before summer time, so would expect now 23:30 to 01:30, and then 03:30 to 08:30 (as it was the case when I had my old meter).
So basically, we are saying I will be billed based on what the meter thinks should go in R01 and R02 (clearly based on wrong hours currently), but the rates applicable to R01 and R02 on the meter will be ignored, and applied by EDF on the backend...

I don't think we're saying that at all.

Your meter will be set to give you seven hours of cheap-rate electricity each night. During those seven hours your electricity will accrue on your night-rate register (probably R02) while the rest of the time, it will accrue on your day-rate regicter (probably R01).

You will be billed for R01 use at the day rate and R02 on the night rate.

The same meter timings that switch you from day rate to night rate will energise the 5th terminal on your meter.

In your case, there is a gap in the cheap rate from 0030 to (probably) 0230.

What might be wrong is the price (not kWh) displayed on your smart meter if it thinks the "gap" has been billed at R02 prices not R01 ones. This will have no effect on your actual bill.

Having downloaded the data for the last several days from the DCC, the rate is changing between 23:30 and 08:30 in the morning, without a gap during the night.



Therefore, my "economy 7" meter is in off peak mode (R02) 9 hours per night, instead of 7 for the old meter. The rates above are indeed completely wrong, as I was on a fixed tariff that has expired.

It's working in my advantage, unless EDF start calculating the bills not from the R01 and R02 values of the meter, but from the readings sent itself, and correct times...